Which scenario for house move (schools & lifestyle)?

[HomeTimes]

NC for anonymity. I am looking for opinions on these two scenarios for my family's house moves in the next couple of years.

Context is we are youngish, newly married and I'm pregnant. DH works in Canary Wharf though might be moving to the city, and he works long hours. (That's another story!)

At the moment we live in a practical flat we bought to get on the housing ladder. Property worth about £550k. The area is convenient transport-wise (think Stratford ish area) but not surrounded by much green space, and without much community spirit. It's been great living here for the last few years as a young couple. However, we don't know any of our neighbours and I really want to be able to walk to a green space with my baby rather than get the tube. I am also starting to think a sense of community would be good for me as a mum who'll be doing the lions share during the week.

Considerations / priorities then are access to excellent green space, schools and proximity to DH work to cut down commute time. The commute time is particularly relevant for the next 5 years or so. Thereafter DH should have been promoted sufficiently that his job will change and commute times won't matter as much (so we'll be able to live further out).

So with this in mind...
Option A:
We don't stretch ourselves too much, and just move like for like (to another 2-bed flat) but to an area with good green space, nice primaries and good sense of community for me and a quick commute for DH Eg Blackheath, Maze Hill, Vanbrugh Park. I've seen decent 2-beds for 5-600k. This option supports our lives for the next 9-10 years while DC is small and keeps commute short whilst helping us have good quality of life at weekends with access to the Heath and lots of community stuff. I'm drawn to this option because we would keep our outgoings the same, and not stretch ourselves financially.
This option would mean once DC is in Year 5(?) we would need to look at Secondary school situation and likely move to an area with better secondaries, eg Alexandra Palace, Twickenham, Barnet or further out. By this time we would (hopefully) be able to afford a bigger home. (I should add we are not sure if we would have a second DC, but we are cautious due to finances, our relationship, climate change etc. However if we did then 2 DC could share bedrooms up until this point).

Option B
We think about the secondary school situation as early as now, and with the next move we position ourselves to move to those areas instead. This would probably mean stretching our budget and spending a bit more, eg to live in Richmond borough, but then we would be making roots in an area where we anticipate the DC would go to secondary school. We might need to upsize the property later on but at least we would be in the right area. DH commute would be longer with this option, but we would be thinking ahead to 11 years time.

So in a nutshell, do you think it unwise for us to move somewhere to make the next 10 years better, or should we be thinking more strategically and looking ahead to secondary already?

I think I’d move to your target area now. You’ll get settled and your child and you will make local friends. I think it’s quite hard to then up sticks in Y5 for somewhere completely different.

I also think you’ll be able to get a 2-bed flat for 500-600k in super expensive areas like Richmond. So if you’re happy living in a flat with a child, you really should have a problem.

Oh, I’d also add that when it comes to commuting, it also depends on what type of job your husband does. Eg my DH works long hours. Luckily, he catches a direct train from zone 5 and always gets a window seat and cracks on with work on his laptop. That means he’s often able to be in the office only for his core hours. When we lived in zone 2, he was out of the house longer as commute was wasted on being jammed onto trains and he needed to stay longer in the office.

Definitely move to the secondary school area now. Be mindful school can go up and down in quality though - so you do have to actually like the area as well. Once you are settled it is hard to move to a completely different area. Yes I know some people do it very successfully but I didn't realise how many roots I would put down with the kids.....even things like Beaver groups, to cubs to scouts etc

Not sure I'd move so far away. In the Stratford area surely you have Queen Elizabeth Park and Victoria Park - both gorgeous green spaces, and the East London Academy which is getting some of the best A level results in the UK and sending lots of pupils to Oxbridge. As well as it being almost walking distance from your DH's work, whether he's in the City or Docklands.

Three bed for 600k

Pretty Victorian 2 bed

3 bed with communal cinema and roof terrace

I'd go for Blackheath/Greenwich. You'll be able to get a small house and there are lots of state and private school options (plus Grammars in the neighbouring Boroughs that lots of children from the area use). plus the commute will be super easy. Look at the Standard area which borders Charlton and Blackheath. Train station is Westcombe Park (one along from Maze Hill) and closer to the Jubilee Line too. Fantastic communities, green, safe, the river nearby and you can trade up housing wise to the more expensive parts.

@newdeer Thanks for looking up those flats. We do use the Olympic Park at present, but it's not quite what we are looking for longer term as it's not mature. I am a country girl at heart, and though I love the city I sort of need that 'best of both worlds' village within London feel and especially some woodland / mature trees such as in Greenwich Park, Richmond, Hampstead etc on my doorstep. It's just personal taste and I think it's a little bit to do with my wellbeing as the person who will be spending all day everyday with the baby and looking after my own mental health too. Not sure if that makes sense!

@JoJoSM2 Thanks for your thoughts. With the commute, his job sounds a bit different. He wouldn't be able to work on his laptop in public as the work is all v confidential. He often has early meetings and usually gets home between 10-12pm, so the shorter the journey the better for the next few years at least. At the moment his journey home in an uber is 15 minutes so we can often have time to sit down together at the end of the day which is important.

The reason I thought of Blackheath / Greenwich surrounds is that the commute would be quick whilst also offering a 'country' feel and sense of community. I know the secondaries aren't amazing but now I'm wondering if I should do more research into secondaries in that area?

It seems like everyone is saying think about secondaries now rather than make a short-term move...

Move to secondary area now. Think carefully about schools and commute as top priorities.

Areas with good schools will have good communities that you will be happy in when DC is/are small. But your husband needs a commute that won't kill him, too.

Greenwich is lovely and a very easy commute to Canary Wharf or the City. There are quite a few good primaries. Blackheath has excellent state primaries, but the commute is slightly longer/less frequent, but still very good. For secondary, my understanding is that many kids go to the private schools in Dulwich or the grammars in Sidcup/Orpington. Do you know yet if you will be able to afford school fees or does it all hinge on your careers developing as expected? If you are Catholic and having a girl St Ursula's in Greenwich is a great state secondary school. Re 2nd child, most people in your position will go on to want a second child. Ideally go for 3 bedrooms.

Thanks @pettswoodmumof3 This is my worry about secondaries. We don't want to send the dc to independent / private school and we are not religious, so it would need to be a comprehensive. My worry is Greenwich / Blackheath just won't work on that front, even though lifestyle and commute would have been ideal! 😫

Is your husband planning to work till 10-12pm when your child is born? Mine scaled down the evenings but they were mostly meetings/dinners as opposed to grafting at a desk. If he’s going to carry on like that, then you don’t really have an option other than moving no further than Greenwich/Blackheath. And then maybe reconsider if he changes jobs to the city as that will open options with quick trains to London Bridge or Waterloo.

HomeTimes - then pick a house in a catchment of an outstanding mixed comprehensive where you will be guaranteed a place. Don't worry too much about going to the outstanding primary - a good primary is sufficient. Primary schools change so quickly! By the time by eldest was in Year 6, what was sought after when we applied had totally shifted. A lot of it is local gossip/perception too. I can only mention the excellent comps I know near me in the Bromley area (which is green and you would get a house). Beckenham: Langley Boys and Langley Girls school (next to each other), Bullers Wood girls and now also Bullers Wood boys (should be great by the time your child has grown up), Darrick Wood, Hayes secondary school. Have you considered Dulwich? The Charter School is meant to be good. Richmond is lovely but more expensive than SE London. Do you think you will want your child to get into a grammar school? Ideally, you have a comprehensive on your door step but also the grammar option if you want that.

B! It'll come so much quicker than you think.

There is a new secondary school called the Leigh Academy at the Standard. The kids seem very well behaved but they are still building the actual new school. Thomas Tallis isn't bad either. John Roan and the Greenwich Free School currently not doing so well but neither are bad schools in terms of intake. By the time you need to think about secondary schools, the situation may have changed. Grammars are in Bexley and Bromley - quite a few of them and lots of children travel to them. It's an easy journey. Most of the primaries are great.

There is so much going on for parents and babies/toddlers in the area; running groups, baby yoga, soft play, baby massage, Nct, toy library and a 101 other groups plus the Maritime Museum, leisure centres galore etc. It's not as suburban/naice as Richmond (but still very nice!) and travelling to the Wharf and City is very easy.

We had to leave for a neighbouring Borough as we couldn't afford to buy a big enough house but loved our many years there - it's a great community and we're back practically every day!

The 3rd option is you stay put for now and save and let your husband have the short commute to further his career and have some time with the baby. I think you will meet like minded mums - have you joined NCT yet? You then move when your child is 3/4 years old and it is time to apply to schools to the area you will stay in long term. I used to live in the Greenwich/Blackheath area - it was very lovely yummy mummy but more than 50 per cent of my original friends moved away when it came to school time (to upgrade to a bigger house or a house from a flat). Also, a lot changes in 10 years. Some of my old friends are now super successful (think equity partners in large law firms) and suddenly their political outlook and views on independent schools have shifted massively. They just about managed to get through outstanding leafy state primary but the local comp is not where their kids are going even though it is excellent. I know at least 5 such cases.

Move to the secondary school area now – it's stressful uprooting your DC in year 5 or 6 away from their friends. You might not mind your DH working long hours as much when you've got a better support network of friends and community around you.

I would move to the area that you want to put your root down in the long term. I'm about to have a child, and are moving to different area, and we are already found it hard to loose our neighbors and all the local connection that we found (just simple thing like local vendors, cleaner, builders, the restaurants, parks that we like etc). I imagine it would be even harder after you have kids and more friends there.
I would prefer a 3 bedrooms though (even small 3 bedrooms), rather than 2 beds. You may find yourself out space the 2 beds quickly with a kid (we did), and 3 beds with good school will keep value better if you want to upsize whereas for 2 beds most of potential buyers most likely 1st time buyer with no kids, downsize, investor who really don't value school that much.
Have you consider further out than Richmond in commuter town (with fast train), and being near to the station (10-15 mins walk able) e.g St Albans, Harpenden, Guildford, Sevenoaks, just as option? It may travel faster and similar time to Canary Wharf than Richmond.

Hmmm, v interesting views, thank you.

@Zoemelb thanks for your thoughts. There is no way we would want to live in Guildford / St Albans etc. That's definitely not what we are looking for. We love city living, just want our cake and eat it, so love green spaces too!

I don't think we could afford 3 bedrooms anywhere near the good schools unfortunately.

Thanks @pettswoodmumof3 I think we may end up doing that i.e. moving when the dc is 3/4 at this rate. However it's good to start having ideas now as we can get to know these areas. I do really feel an urge to have some green space for me and the baby though.

I have had a quick look at St Margarets which seems nice but not sure if commute is too much. Orleans Park school has v good progress 8.

Another secondary I have thought of with good progress 8 is Alexandra Park. Used to live in the area and like it plus fast trains.

Other than that it is so tricky. We are not religious, just looking for mixed, state comprehensives with good value added / progress 8 scores. Does anyone else know of any others in areas with green spaces and quick transport to city or the wharf? The ones in Barnet are a bit far out for us I think.

Thank you for all these ideas x

Move to where you would like to end up.
You and your family will never feel truly settled while you are looking ahead and planning where you are going to go in a few years time.

Just to say that considering a move in year 5 would be too late and put too much pressure on you. We moved when Ds1 was in year 3 for an outstanding secondary and kept him in the outstanding primary. But I am a SAHM and could do the school run in the car every day for 7 years (Ds2)

I think I would look at the secondary schools and edge your bets a bit. Lots of people move for a primary school but I feel secondary schools are the ones that truly matter.

What about Grey Court? You should be able to be within walking distance of Richmond station and in catchment.

Out of places closer in, you could look at Wimbledon but the schools are single sex and not quite the same league as Orleans Park. Wimbledon Common/Putney Heath are over 1000 acres and adjacent to Richmond Park.

Tbh, I don’t think you necessarily need to move bang on to be in your preferred secondary catchment now, just roughly in the area. It might not be that bad to move a mile in the future - it’s not like moving 5 miles away to somewhere completely different.

I would personally prefer to live central and smaller. But with kid/S I think it makes more sense either to move out now or decide to stay central for good. I have friends which now adult children who were born and grew up in central zone 1 flats in London and thrived.
If you move out I’d personally caution against ally pally - if you are thinking of eg richmond/twickenham/Hampton court type areas then ally pally seems a bit random/very different. I know both areas really well.
Fully agree being at the end of a line able to sit and work on the train transforms a commute.
Good luck op.

agree with JoJoSM2 , if you only look into 2 beds place, I would worry about primary school and short distance to station for now. and can move again when the time is right to a larger place with good secondary school. As long as you move within the area it's so much easier.

Also OP, are you 100% sure you won’t be going down the independent route especially if your husband’s career takes off?

Thanks @JoJoSM2 I had seen Grey Court but figured we couldn't afford anywhere near Richmond tube. However that would be great place to live and easyish commute. It's a good point about getting a smaller flat and then upsizing later.

We are not in favour of independent schools so very much hoping to find a good comp. 🙏🏼🙏🏼

Looking at Rightmove, there are a number of 2 beds under 600k less than 0.5 mile from Richmond station and even more slightly further. You’d just need to check you’re in a catchment of a nice primary. Some other comps in the area might improve, catchments shrink or expand by the time you’re applying for secondary so you can see if/where you might like to move slightly when the time comes.

Richmond generally has excellent state primaries but just make sure you aren’t in a black hole. Richmond Park is 2500 acres so alongside Wimbledon Common and Putney Heath, you’re getting a gigantic green space + access to the river. Personally, I hate the loud planes over Richmond but it’s as green as you’re going to get + fancy shops and restaurants + it’s not far out.