400K£ budget - where to buy in London?

[canadianinlondon]

My husband and I live in a one bedroom flat in Zone 2 (Caledonian Road) and we work near Liverpool St and Kennington stations respectively. We would like to try starting for kids in a year's time and are thinking of where to buy (as well as when to buy - before/during/after pregnancy?). We would like to stick around a budget of 400K£ (in case we need to be on a single income), although we could push up to 500K£ if we really needed to. Looking for a 2-3 bedroom flat/maisonette close to transit, can be a fixer upper, within 30 minutes commute into the city. Ideally it's in an up and coming family friendly area, and something we can sell or rent out in 10 years time (if we decide to move back to North America). We are fairly open to areas (except for East London). We've also always lived near a tube/overground, and I've seen quite a few recommendations on this site for areas that are train accessible only. This would be completely new for us, and not sure if we would want to depend on a specific train schedule vs. tube/overground that comes every few minutes (my colleagues always complain about train delays).

Suggested areas to look? Excited to explore areas on the weekends as we start on this new chapter!

Thank you in advance for your help!

Lots of lovely period conversion flats south of the river close to tubes within (the upper limit of) your budget - e.g.

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-75301720.html

What else do you need? Assuming parking not necessary - would you rather be close to a park (head south west) and compromise on a

Mmm, I think it will be tricky to find somewhere with a door to door commute by tube in 30 minutes if you're discounting the whole of East London. Overground trains aren't as frequent as the tube but can be reliable depending on the service.

Agree, Stockwell, Brixton and Lambeth in general but think carefully about schools and general safety. These are unfortunately areas where there is a lot of crime. Personally, I'd look in Wanstead in your position.

I’m down in Sutton. No tube but trains to Victoria, London Bridge, City Thameslink etc. At 3am/when trains are delayed it’s a short bus/cab ride from Morden tube so you’re never ‘stranded’.
In return for being more disciplined with getting to the station at the right time, you get top top schools (no 1 in England for secondary and not far behind for primary). It’s the safest borough in London too with tons and tons of families and family activities - anything from Baby and toddler classes, amazing soft play to sports clubs, pools, climbing centre, trampoline park, public golf course etc You’re spoilt for choice of activities and it’s ideal if you’re at all sporty/outdoorsy. The only ‘up and coming’ thing about the area is Sutton High Street- while it has a designer department store and many restaurants (some with kids areas), it also has pound shops/Primark etc.
It’s great value for money so you could get a proper house or a maisonette and have lots of money left over.

If you really, really can’t live without the tube, then I’d look in SW London along the District or Northern line. You’ll probably get a 2-bed flat at a push but there are lovely parks, some excellent schools and you could be close to the river.

Oh, and I would definitely buy pre-pregnancy so you have time to sort the place out to your taste and avoid difficult situations eg with the chain collapsing when you’re about to pop. In the English system, people can pull out at the last minute.

Just make sure the place you buy is child friendly, not many flights of stairs to walk up with a buggy, somewhere to store a buggy, preferably an open plan kitchen, close to park and playground etc

Yes I think you are going to struggle to be 30 mins commute for you both within even £500k budget in a nice area, it will definitely be a flat (poss with garden) rather than a house/maisonette at that price - nothing wrong with a flat of course!

Out of interest why the prohibition on East London as that would be the most convenient direction for your work - most of Hackney for instance is very trendy and middle class now and would be a super easy commute to Liverpool St, slightly less so to Kennington but you could do train to Liv.St, either walk/tube to Moorgate and northern line from there?

You could also consider going a little further out northwards from where you are now, Manor House/Finsbury Park is an area that's been gentrified a lot in the last few years (the areas around the stations still not great but once you are 5-10 min walk away lots of nice quiet streets of victorian terraces), great transport links with the choice of piccadilly or victoria lines plus some overground stations as well. Budget will be a stretch but you should be able to get a small 2 bed period flat (probably no garden) within a mile of the station...

If you can stretch the commute to more like 40-45 mins, and can get over your tubes vs trains hang up, you will get a lot more for your money if you venture south -east wards, areas like Forest Hill, Hither Green, Lewisham, Blackheath are very nice and very popular with families. I understand the train fear but this close in to the city the trains will be nearly as frequent as the tube (maybe not every 2 mins but likely 4 or 5 an hour) and delays are not really a big issue - I am betting your colleagues who moan come in from a lot further away. You should be able to get a nice 2 bed garden flat, commute would be OK for both going into London Bridge where you can pick up northern line southwards for Kennington and northwards for Moorgate which is 5 mins from Liv. Street.

If you really want a 3 bed place then I think you'll need to go more to zone 4-5 which probably means closer to an hour's commute door to door for one of you at least, is that an option?

As to when to move, ideally I think move before baby, particularly if you want to do lots of work to the place. But then again the purchase process can take a long time in the UK, expect 3 months minimum and 6 months is not unheard of. Lots of London people I know have babies in 1 bed flats so it wouldn't be a disaster to stay where you are now (baby sleeps with them for first 6 months at least so lack of 2nd bedroom not an issue there, storage can be a problem though)...

This is all incredibly helpful!

I agree the tube/train decision will be difficult - deciding whether to go to the end of a tube line (we were looking at Morden at the very south of Northern Line, or Amersham at the very west of Metropolitan) or whether to go on a train area like the ones that you have all kindly suggested!

East London seemed so far from city centre/West London fun and that massive gentrification is still required. There are also no major international airports in that area.

My husband and I have many couple friends who live in Zone 1/2 and we still like to go out quite a bit on weekends. We would probably be one of the first to 'leave' the city to go a bit further out so it seems like a bigger jump to go somewhere that was only accessible by a train.

We also might need to sell or rent this to young professionals family in five to ten years time so tube access seems like it'll be an important factor for this group.

Loving all the detail so far! By the way, this is my FIRST post on Mumsnet (given I'm not a mum yet) so really appreciate all the help so far!

Thanks,
May

I think (understandably) you are getting a bit muddled with your London geography here - places like Hackney and Lewisham are not really 'outside' the city even though they are not on the tube - they are in zone 2 and would be about 6-7 miles from Charing Cross (in my mind the centre of 'going out' fun although youngsters might be more likely to measure from Shoreditch or Brixton), they are much closer than places at the far end of tube lines - Amersham is 27 miles from CC according to Google Maps . I really doubt your friends will shake their heads in sorrow and expect never to see you again if you move there!

Of course if you really fancy the suburban dream of a 3 bed semi detached house and garden then you are going to need to look further outside London (in which case probably scratch the advice above and consider looking in areas on mainline train links into London Bridge, Liverpool St or Waterloo such as Sevenoaks or Orpington) but in my mind, if you still fancy living in the city, you could happily have a couple of pre-school age kids in a nice 2 bed conversion with garden in zone 2-3, so long as you have parks and amenities nearby, so you could have a good 5 or more years before you need to think of moving again.

As for the re-sale value, I think you'd be fine renting out to young professionals in any of the areas mentioned above, people are generally fine so long as they can get into the centre fine so it won't make a huge difference if they are 5 mins from a train or 5 mins from a tube...

I moved to London after uni, went out loads (3/4 times a week) and yet never lived on the tube. I doubt that most people mind. Especially if you get lots of different direct train routes.

Don’t dismiss locations reached only by trains and not by the tube. It really depends. What you want is trains every 3-5 minutes max during rush hour, so you can go to the station without even looking up the timetable, and multiple train lines converging into the station and continuing towards the centre, which means that a problem on one line is less likely to affect your commute. This is what makes the trains in stations like Wimbledon, Earlsfield, Clapham Junction, Balham, etc. so efficient. I know contractors who live in Wimbledon and work in the city, yet it takes them less than it takes many colleagues based in Fulham or other parts of West London (north of the river and with the tube) to get to the office.

To gravitate towards Livepool street, SE London is better than SW, but you need to do your homework and check if the train lines in SE London have improved since the days of the Southern Rail strikes.

I am focusing on south of the river, because it’s cheaper and you’re more likely to find something within your budget there.

Unless one of the parents has a very short and easy commute, and reasonable hours, allowing him/her to pick up kids from nursery, you ideally don’t want to live somewhere with trains/buses/whatever running every 15 minutes only. Say you miss one train by a few moments and the next one gets cancelled (it can happen…), and who will pick up your kids from school / when? Of course you may not have a choice but, to the extent you can, this is something to bear in mind. When you are childless, it’s easier to put up with the inconvenience of a long delay every now and then.

Crystal palace is 20 mins into London bridge you would get a nice 2 bed prob with garden for 450k. You can also go further up the line forest hill etc. But it gets more expensive

Consider Walthamstow. 20 mins by tube to Oxford Circus from Blackhorse Road. The village area is really family friendly. Because you're on the Victoria Kine it feels a bit less east-endy.

Oh and just to say links into Liverpool st from Walthamstow Central are about 20 mins too.

East London seemed so far from city centre/West London fun and that massive gentrification is still required. There are also no major international airports in that area.

Eh? Have you ever looked at a map of London as it appears you haven't.

There are parts of east London that are extremely well connected (both to the rest of London and to airports). Significantly better connected than Amersham or Morden! I find your comments bizarre. As for the "massive gentrification", have a look at the property prices around E1/E2 and you'll see that in most cases the gentrification ship sailed many years ago. The vast number of hipster coffee roasteries are testament to that. If you don't like east London, that's fine but you're making such sweeping generalisations and it sounds like none of it is actually based on any facts. Your loss but at least do your research before you rule out 25% of London.

As for major international airports, I guess you don't count London City or Stansted but I live in E1 and it takes me an hour to get to either Heathrow or Gatwick although obviously the Heathrow journey will shorten dramatically when Crossrail finally opens. Unless I'm travelling very early or late in which case I can be at Heathrow or Gatwick in under 40 mins. . London City is an amazing airport. Even for international flights you only need to check-in 30 mins before flight departure and when you arrive, even if you have checked luggage you'll have your bags and be out of the airport within 5 mins from landing. I can be home in less time than I'd still be walking through Heathrow or Gatwick after getting off a flight.

I live in Greenwich and everyone is always amazed that it’s ZONE 2!!!
8 min to London Bridge on the train, plus the DLR into Bank, plus the Thames Clipper boat (amazing way to commute).
VERY family friendly.
We tend to get Uber’s regularly if we’re out late more central, and it’s only around £18.
Prices have gone up a lot, so not sure if youd get much for £400k, but def doable on 500k

Only a mile or so away - if that - is Lee, and you can get a house for 400-500k, it’s massively on the up, but more suburban than Greenwich/Blackheath.

East London isn't too far from the centre of town - i think you may need reconsider what your wish list is. You won't get 30mins to the city, and 30mins to central London for 400k with all your requirements and be in an area where you want to raise kids.
Wanstead is nice, but I'd be surprised if 400k got you much.
Forest gate, slightly less nice but not that bad if you're on the village side. Again though, you'd not get much for your money that would be desirable. South Woodford is also quite nice.

Ooh, just checked Rightmove and there are lots of decent flats in Greenwich for around £450k for a 2 bed.
I’m talking about near Greenwich town centre, not North Greenwich where the O2 is, btw. However, if you looked North Greenwich at the Millenium Village, you’d be on the Jubilee Line.
(BTW, I moved to Greenwich after living in Tottenham Court Road and Holborn for years, and never regretted moving here).

Peckham/Camberwell ticks some of your boxes. Not on a tube but the Peckham stations are on the overground and there and trains go into London Bridge and Victoria, if that fails you it’s really good for buses, and cycling and you could probably walk to Kennington. I think you’d be able to get a nice garden flat for closer to £500k.

SearchSmartly will be a perfect tool for you. If you click here, you'll see all options within 45min commute to Kennington and Liverpool Street, ranked by how well their access to tube stations / schools / supermarkets.

There are lots of options that have a 35-40min commute, but only 3 properties that are under 30mins, and those are out east from what I could tell!

Enfield. My mother lives there and bought a beautiful home for under that a few years ago which is now worth over £500k. Great transport links.

Would second Sutton as with that budget you would be looking at a house. It’s close to Kingston, Croydon, Wimbledon and a quick bus route to the tube. Plus night buses out of central London.
Having been on public transport with a buggy and a split level maisonette it’s not fun! You also quickly run out of space with little ones.

I would check out Sydenham/ Forest Hill etc. We have just (yesterday) sold our 2 bed maisonette in Sydenham for 450k. It was huge, 5 mins from the overground and easy links to London Bridge and Lpool St (overground to Shoreditch and 10 min walk). I think you will find lots for your budget in these areas, especially if you go up to 500k.

North Chingford, 35 minutes by overground to Liverpool Street, Epping forest on your doorstep. Or Highams park 25 minutes by overground to Liverpool st.

Looking on Rightmove, there's a 1st floor maisonette for sale at £375k in Colliers Wood (Dinton Road). Those maisonettes have a decent private hallway (room for a pram) and a small garden. The flat is close to St George's hospital so no problem renting it out later on, 2 double bedrooms and about 8 mins walk to the tube. Parks nearby, coffee shops, big Sainsbury's & M&S on the other side of the tube (plus Aldi, Dunelm, Currys, Boots, TK Maxx etc nearby). In the other direction, Tooting Broadway & all its shops/restaurants are about 15 mins walk away. Added to which, CW has finally hit the up & coming description!

I'd move to Blackheath. Lovely area in my opinion and it's 30 minutes to each of your jobs.