Party wall / planning: what to do?

[NeverWasABrownie]

My next door (adjoined) neighbours have put in a planning request to build a single storey extension at the back of the house. This has apparently been agreed. The first I heard about it was when I got a spam letter through the post from a specialist party wall surveyor (NOT acting on their behalf) offering to act for us. I genuinely had no idea there was any planning application at all until that moment. (We get on ok with neighbours, no arguments, but not friends if that makes sense)

Found the plans on the council website, and they've been approved. I called the planning department, because I thought they were supposed to notify neighbours and/or stick something on a lamppost or something, and they said no, it's under "permitted development" so that's fine.

I've had a look at the plans and it's probably fine, but what I'm really worried about is the process. Aren't they supposed to tell us they're planning or embarking on work? What about the party wall stuff?

The extension would jut out the back of their house, over their existing patio (and alongside our deck). We live on a hill, so the back of both our houses is 8' higher than the grass level, and their existing patio (and our deck) is built over a big pile of 1920s rubble (with steps to the non-adjoining side). Surely building an extension on top of that is going to involve some serious digging?

(so not to drip feed: they did a loft conversion 5 years ago, and didn't notify us then either, or do anything about the party wall. We didn't realise until it was too late, they didn't build in any sound insulation (it's literally a brick wide) and now whenever I'm in the loft I can hear everything happening in their en suite. Worried the same thing is going to happen again, only this time it might make the back of my house slide down the hill, too)

What should my next steps be?
(Thanks in advance - NC for this as it's potentially identifiable)

Permitted development rules are quite different from planning permission. I can't remember what the limits are now but it used to be that if your extension was 3m or less, with no side facing windows, and normal roof height, then you could just build it and get a certificate to cover it as long as you met building regs. If the extension was bigger then it's only allowed if neighbours agree to it but you'd definitely need to be notified.

It's pretty bad form of them not to tell you though!

With the sound insulation, I'm not sure if that is covered by party wall agreements. I thought that was more about correcting any risk or damage to your property during the build.

Is there something you could add soundproofing wise from your side? Following with interest as my neighbour seems to have stuck his bathroom tiles straight on our shared wall and I'm sick of hearing him clearing phlegm in his echo chamber bathroom

Do not engage with firms who contact you unsolicited about the Party Wall (etc) Act who have trawled the planning portal. contact your own local registered Chartered Surveyor for reliable and impartial advice. You are the 'Adjoining Owner' the neighbour doing the project is called the 'Building Owner'. good luck.

Thank you. I'm mostly worried about them digging new foundations to support the extension - there'll have to be something 8' deep before they get to the ground level to dig in for foundations, and at the moment our patios lean on each other (on top of a pile of rubble)

The neighbours builders will have insurance in place - ask to see the documents or certificate

contact your own local registered Chartered Surveyor for reliable and impartial advice - or use the 'Agreed Surveyor' route, in either case you should have a schedule of condition done before work starts by the Party Wall Surveyor. also notify your buildings insurance that you have these works going on next door.

do not assume the neighbour is adequately insured and neither assume the builder is. ask to see documents anyway and be aware the policy may expire during the works. your party wall surveyor can advise further

We have a similar issue, we decided to appoint our surveyor as it was free of charge to us and also we were concerned that the single surveyor wouldn't look after our interests (although, they are meant to be impartial).
We appointed these guys: www.sevenoneassociatesltd.co.uk/party-wall-services-london
they helped negotiate a reasonable compensation figure for the use of our wall by the neighbour's new extension. They also came back after the works to check if there was any damage.

The surveyors do review the plans and it should conform to the current regulations.

Good luck with your neighbour!

the above has the distinct feel of a sales promotion message by or on behalf of the firm concerned, and... there would have been no right to a payment to abut onto a Party Wall.... there are key points missing from the information provided.

Thanks, I thought I smelt that too. I won't be using anyone who recommends themselves in a letter through my front door (or on an Internet forum), but have got a solid recommendation from a friend.

They are clearly not planning to do Party Wall Act. You need to act fast and appoint your own surveyor. Once they start it will be too late.

I have experience of this and it was living hell, I ended up on anti depressants.

Whatever they say you MUST get a Party Wall agreement in place.

The reason you must act is that the party wall act is not legally enforceable. So if they go ahead without it there is nothing you can do other than get an injunction.

A local Chartered Surveyor will often write to the people doing the work (called the' Building Owner') free before they start to build, to tell them their proposals have been noticed and they are expected to follow the procedures and statutory requirements of the Act.

You can write to your neighbour asking them not to start any work and that they must appoint a party wall surveyor due to the nature of the work. You can refuse them entry on to your land and state they will be held responsible for any damage.

Their surveyor must serve notice on you regarding their intended works. You then say you are disputing that and inform their surveyor of your surveyors name etc. They pay for your surveyor. You then talk to your surveyor about the issues which are then the subject of negotiation. Party wall surveyors don’t actually have to be surveyors. The one we are using is a Structural Engineer. Someone like that could be very useful to you.

Lastly my DMs neighbours are extending which is why we have engaged a party wall surveyor and DM received nothing from the council either. The planning notice was attached to a lamp post on the other side of the road. Notifying adjoining properties now doesn’t seem to happen. We also adjoin a property that has extended 3 times recently and we haven’t been told once and again the notice was attached to a telegraph Pole next door to a field. The same council - obviously staffed by idiots.

Part of what said above is wrong. The matter does not become 'negotiation'. Do not treat the Party Wall (etc) Act 1996 as a means to veto, negotiate or choose what your neighbour may lawfully build. Notice can be served by the 'Building Owners' or their appointed professional which as stated above can be anybody but ideally a suitable property professional who will be useful in discussing what goes on. The Act is to facilitate building on adjoining or nearby properties. The recognised professional body on this is The Pyramus and Thisbe Club, see
www.partywalls.org.uk/
and read their very useful guides. Do not as a home owner planning to build something, pretend to be a Party Wall Know All - usually these amateurs get it wrong, get the right people on board early because there are Notice periods required by Statute.

Update to this: spoke to the neighbours who were very nice and talked about being considerate about building noise etc. But when I mentioned the PWA and the official notification, and that building work couldn't start for two months after that they said "oh but that can be waived can't it? Wouldn't you rather we did the work over the winter?" They don't have a builder yet but I got the impression that as soon as they do they'll want to get on with it if there's a gap in the schedule.

So we left it as me saying I'd look forward to getting that PW notification and now it's been a week and...nothing.

I don't want to nag them via text but I really do want them to do their statutory duty!

There is some form of negotiation! That’s why there is a dispute. It’s because you wish to state your points of view and have these considered. No, you cannot stop the building but you can mitigate any damage and reasonably protect your property.

They might not have a surveyor yet! A week isn’t that long. DM waited 4 weeks.

Hi @NeverWasABrownie

The best thing is to write to them and let them know they have a responsibility to serve notice. Most people (inc. architects and engineers) don't really understand this, so its best to assume they don't.

Unfortunately, until notice has been served the Act won't be invoked. From what you say they will need to serve a Section 6 notice for excavation within 3m of your structure - this has a one month notice period, not two, so that may encourage them to serve.

Once they do serve, you can use one 'Agreed Surveyor' which will be cheapest for them, or you can appoint your own. I would suggest referring them to the main accrediting body the Faculty of Party Wall Surveyors - www.fpws.org.uk/

At the very least you should get a Schedule of COndition taken before the works commence. Don't forget that if the worst happens you can still raise a dispute and appoint a surveyor even if you have consented at first.

Hope that helps.