NHBC, building regs, gas/electric certificate ... HELP

[GoingToInfinity]

We are now nearly 3 months it to trying to purchase our house. The whole process has been awful as both our vendors and our solicitors have been incredibly slow and unresponsive. We are now at the point where our buyers are ready to go, but there is still a great deal of outstanding paperwork and responses we are waiting for in order to progress.

From the latest correspondence we've had, we've discovered that the vendors don't have a copy of building regs, nor a gas or electric safety certificate. They do however have their NHBC. My question is, if they have been issued a NHBC certificate would they have already been building regs and gas/electric safety checks first?

My guess is that they do have the paperwork we need somewhere but they just haven't been bothered to locate it. We have said that if it can't be located we expect a structural survey and gas/electric safety check to be conducted at their expense before we are happy to proceed any further. They have been so slow at replying thus far and awful at getting paperwork together, we're hoping a financial cost will encourage to get their act together to look for it.

We're very worried that everything will fall apart if they don't get a move on as our buyers deposit is through a time sensitive scheme.

it should have building regs which will include the installation of gas and electric appliances. Safety checks are not the same thing.

Survey and safety checks are done by the buyer if this is England, and I'm surprised your solicitor hasn't advised you of that, although if they are crap then maybe not. Remember that your solicitor works for you so light a fire under them.

I'm afraid that the reply from the vendors to this request will be a variation on 'jog on'. If you do that, your only option is to break the chain by going into rental for six months. Sorry.

There is no requirement to supply gas or electricity certificates in England for a sale. If it is still under nhbc chances are they can obtain a copy of Buildings certification from council. Did they buy it from developer?

How old is the property?

@mencken the issue is that the vendors have no copy of building regs certificate and they're not sure if there is one. The only way to find out is to contact the council, but if we do and there aren't building regs then we wouldn't be able to get insurance.

@LIZS yes they bought it from the developer and it's still under NHBC

@Mildura sorry thought I'd included that in the OP. 2011.

So the house has been worked on since it was built and has no building regs?

Survey would be at your expense anyway, so if you want one get one, but I’d tell you to get knotted if I was the vendor. I’ve had electrical safety and boiler service done as a precaution when selling , but that’s it (and was done to be nice, tbh).

We are selling and don’t have elec and boiler certificates. Buyers have sent an electrician and gas man round to check both.

No, no work has been done to our knowledge but there is no original documentation for the installation of the electrics, no documentation whatsoever for the boiler, and no building regulation certificate for the original build.

hmm. Given that insurance issue, probably time to walk away.

plenty of other houses not owned by the hopelessly disorganised.

It is the vendor's issue really. The same problem would arise with any purchaser. Can you look online for any permissions/buildings regs.

send in your own electrician to test it and same with the gas, the new name for Corgi is 'Gas Safe'. have these done and you will have your own up to date certification. hopefully you employed a Chartered Surveyor to inspect the building properly as well and didn't rely on a mortgage 'survey' that isn't a survey. good luck.

Lack of building regs can be covered by an indemnity policy (at the vendor’s cost). Your solicitor should check with your mortgage lender as to whether they will accept that.

If it's a new build then the developers will have had to apply for planning permission which will be recorded with the local council - it is your solicitor's responsibility to check this. The default assumption (NB I am not a lawyer) is then that if the local authority has signed off on it, the work was okay. There's no obligation on the owner to keep records of this and few would; they should, however, have kept the NHBC guarantee paperwork and I'd walk away from any sale where a vendor couldn't provide this.

Structural survey - buyer pays. This is standard. Gas and electical safety - unlike a rental, an owner occupier doesn't have to have this, so normal procedure is you as buyer pay for checks to be done by suitably qualified local tradespeople then haggle over the price if it turns out anything needs fixed.

So YANBU over the lack of paperwork for the guarantee, but everything else, I'd think you were taking the piss if I were the vendors (in fact I recently was part of a chain which collapsed due to similar piss taking on the part of the buyers of one property).

I think it's easy enough for us to sort out the gas and electric by getting someone in, the main worry is the building regs.

The Estate Agent is going to contact the vendor today to make absolutely sure they haven't got the certificate and they'll we need to decide where to go from there. If it's just a case they've lost the certificate but it has been done, they can contact the council for a replacement (found the details after trawling the council website), if they haven't got building regs at all I think we'll need to strongly reconsider purchasing.

The issue is, even with indemnity insurance it won't solve the issue and if we were to ever sell the house we'd have the same issue. I know they could go through regularisation which would involve them reporting themselves to council and getting building regs retrospectively but it would involve stripping back plaster as well as inspecting foundations so not sure whether the vendors will be willing to do this.

I just don't understand how a new build (8 years old) in a development of 6 would have no building regs.

The issue is, even with indemnity insurance it won't solve the issue and if we were to ever sell the house we'd have the same issue

You just pass on the policy when you come to sell. I mean I agree I’d ask for a structural survey, but that won’t be sufficient for the lender, you’ll still need insurance in absence of building regs.

The other option is for your solicitor to contact the developers direct and ask the question of them.

Jacques, not all buyers will accept this (reasonably enough on their part as all indemnity insurance does is cover you against the cost of the local authority making you bring things up to standard/pull down things done without planning permission: it doesn't cover the cost of structural defects to you).

not all buyers will accept this

IME it is very few who won’t - especially in conjunction with a structural survey as I mentioned.

@JacquesHammer indemnity insurance doesn't do anything other than insure us if the council decides to get involved which I doubt they would due to length of time that's past. A structural survey would put our minds at rest somewhat but it won't resolve the situation.

The developers are actually a small very local company so definitely either the solicitors or us could approach them. Would they keep records of that sort of thing?

indemnity insurance doesn't do anything other than insure us if the council decides to get involved which I doubt they would due to length of time that's past. A structural survey would put our minds at rest somewhat but it won't resolve the situation

I know what it does. I was a property lawyer. It might be essential to satisfy your lender. I can think of few lenders who would be willing to proceed without it in the absence of building regs.

The developers should have records of all their previous developments and the regulations they obtained.

Ah okay, thank you 🙂 so our best way forward if the EA have no joy with the vendors might be just to contact the developers then. At least that way they can confirm quickly whether a building regs certificate was granted and whether it was through the council or an improved inspector and find where to get a new copy if needed. Or if there wasn't a certificate at least we know where we stand.
Thanks.

This should be being handled by lawyers - not you/your estate agent.

If you have a mortgage some documents or indemnity insurance may be required (it may be that no docs are actually required as NHBC can cover of building regs). Your lawyer should be the one listing the docs required and sourcing them from the other side.

If you don't have a mortgage you can purchase without any of the (potentially) missing docs if you want the house enough. Although it would be sensible to source them yourselves in case you need to sell in the future.

Honestly estate agents just don't understand the complexities involved - leave this to your lawyer (speaking as an ex property lawyer). And if you have an unhelpful lawyer - change to a different one! Good luck.

Also agree with above on the indemnity insurance - it can be passed onto future buyers and I can't recall any instances where buyers weren't happy with that (most don't understand what it is and are just happy for boxes to be ticked!)

It shows online if the building control certificate has been issued. It doesn't show a copy of the certificate but you can get it for a small fee.

The certificate can't be issued without the elec certs etc...my Sparkie told me they have to record it online the work they have done as well so shouldn't be a massive issue.....unless they haven't got planning or building control compliance which is a far bigger problem then

@MarieG10 where online can I find it? Have spent ages googling but can't work out where.

@GoingToInfinity

If you look on your local authority planning portal (or the one for the house you are buying). Look up the address on planning applications. It shows all the planning determinations and also building control applications and if completed, ie signed off. You or the home owner can get a copy of the certificate, although they may charge for it.