Rising damp?! Is it a real thing?

[Iamtherealelsa]

This is my first post, please be kind :)

Ok so we have just bought a house, 2 bed Victorian terrace. The decor is not to my taste but we thought that would be easy to resolve and we had a teeny tiny bit left over from the move to rectify the things we didn’t love. 8 weeks or so after moving in, and we’ve noticed a hideous patchy area of damp across the whole of one wall of the dining room! It seems like it’s appeared from nowhere, and I can only think that all the recent heavy rain combined with colder temperatures/having all the doors shut now it’s cold has made what was evidently already an issue, obvious?!

On Monday we had a builder round to look who said that it was a result of needing to reflash the chimney (an issue we were aware of when we bought the house, but not something we thought would be an instant problem). Today we had a surveyor round who said that it’s nothing to do with the chimney and it’s rising damp and has affected the whole side of the house?!

Two things - firstly, I have read loads of stuff which says rising damp is a myth, that the water has to be getting in from somewhere and people are just out to flog damp proof courses which could potentially do more harm than good in old houses anyway.

Secondly, the people before the people we bought the house from, illegally built a tiny conservatory room into the side return, right next to the wall where we noticed the damp. We have theorised that perhaps they have not left enough ventilation/done something dodgy with the guttering/something else we haven’t thought of to do with their bodge job, that has led to water getting in somehow?! Anyone knowledgeable that can help?? Can post pics of the damp wall and the conservatory room if anyone would be willing to take a look? The other thing is that the whole downstairs is carpeted at the moment...not sure of that would contribute to lack of air flow/ventilation? We’re supposed to be getting the carpet taken up and wood flooring laid, but we’re now obviously going to hold off til we’ve sorted whatever this is.

We’re trying to settle in a new area and finding it all bloody exhausting to be honest. Would really appreciate anyone who can help with any insight

Was it a specialist damp surveyor? If so, I've heard that they're basically salesmen for damp proofing companies and you should take what they say with a bucket of salt.

I know nothing about damp I'm afraid, did your homebuyers/structural survey pick anything up when you were buying the house? They should have tested all the walls with a damp meter and I would have thought it would have picked something up if the whole wall is now damp. You could always go back to them and ask them to have another look if you think they missed it.

I'm pretty sure rising damp is a real thing. Sorry.

www.which.co.uk/reviews/damp/article/dealing-with-damp/rising-damp-treatments

I know quite a bit about damp. I live in an early Victorian farm house where parts are literally brick and earth floors, and I have lived in a Victorian hunting lodge, and a Georgian town home, and a log cabin

Rising damp is real but not usually the culprit.

Pictures would be helpful.
Damp in dining room- is it on the wall where the chimney stack is located? Is there also any damp in room above the dining room where the chimney stack is? Where on the wall is it? Bottom, top, middle? What are you seeing? (Plaster flaking off, dark patch, mould). The conservatory is another possibility if they did not attach it to exterior properly or did not maintain the roof seal.

Yes, carpeting can cause damp due to the house interior not being able to breathe. These older homes can’t be weatherproofed by fully sealing them up.

What sort of windows do you have?

Look outside, do you have these metal grates in the walls of your home along the bottom edges? (These are good don’t panic).

Also outside, what is up against your walls? Any bushes? Or do you have gravel up to house walls?

Be careful with Victorian houses as they need the right care regarding damp. Rising damp, hmm if you google rising damp myths have a read of the many articles and see for yourself. Many building experts/surveyors think it's a myth!

Quite often there is a reason like guttering, pointing, chimneys or condensation etc. I'm no way an expert and I'm sure someone else will come along. Maybe a third opinion from a third professional? Recommended if possible? Wouldn't listen to any damp 'specialists' ( salesmen though!)

@Fettfrett thanks for your reply. The survey picked up on some damp on a totally different wall in a different part of the house which was rectified by the vendor before we even exchanged! Nothing else was picked up apart from the chimney flashing, which wasn’t listed as an urgent issue, just something that needs addressing at some point. It’s so weird the way it’s seemingly come from nowhere. From what I have researched it’s not characteristic of rising damp - it’s not a consistent water line, doesn’t have tide marks and the floor and skirting seem totally dry. Urgh. I guess we just need to seek more information fr more qualified people. I’ll stay away from the ‘specialist damp’ types, I’ve also read that they’re just trying to con people although as I’m sure you can tell, I really have no idea about any of it!

We had this but our house is newer (think 1930) and it did have a damp proof course but basically the earth was above it. We had to dig the earth out to, erm i think 250ml below the layer of slate that is the damp layer. Also the air bricks had got covered and filked with mud too. So it might be worth looking to see whats against the damp wall and checking air bricks etc.

I don’t think your carpeting is doing it though if it’s just one wall in on room.
If you tell me more might be able to write up list of suspects you can check out. It could be as simple as a gap in a window frame, a leaky gutter (watch water from outside house by that wall next time it rains).

Chimney stacks are notorious for damp water runs down inside them if the flashing not right but you’d see damp the entire wall on all floors of the house. IT would be worst downstairs but still some evidence of it upstairs too. Chimney stacks also cause cold bridging (can’t be fixed just managed), which can cause damp. My daughters room has that and so we run a dehumidifier 8hrs a day in cold months and that sorted the problem completely. You could try a dehumidifier (put in dining room, leave door open to circulate air)

@DoctorAllcome thank you so much for your insight - it is the wall next to the (blocked up) chimney breast. It’s patchy at a low level, and some of the paint is sort of peeling off. It leaves a ‘chalky’ residue on the back of your hand when rubbed. I’ll try and add some pictures, although the light is a bit rubbish at this time of night

You might find this guide for owners of historic homes useful. There is a whole chapter on dealing withbdamp.
historicengland.org.uk/images-books/publications/guide-for-owners-of-listed-buildings/

This guide has been put together to answer some of the most commonly asked questions by those who live in or care for listed buildings.

So whether you want to know more about the listing process or what to consider when you want to make changes to your home, such as adding an extension or updating your windows, this guide will help point you in the right direction.

It also covers some of the most common problems faced by those living in older buildings, such as dealing with damp.
Contents
Introduction
What does it mean if my house is listed?
Listed building consent
Understanding your building
Traditional windows
Adding an extension
Kitchens and bathrooms
Dealing with damp
Saving energy
Further information

If you go to youtube there's a man called Peter Ward, I think he's some kind of surveyor or damp proof specialist. He's got quite a few videos showing how to find out what is causing your damp problem and how to avoid getting ripped off by cowboy damp specialists.

I think you'll find his videos very helpful.

Thank you so much everyone. Will have a good read of the guide and look up Peter Ward on YouTube

Have lived in a house for 30 years with this. Yes, 'real'' imo. Tried various solutions. Chemical damp-proof course - didn't work. Replastering with 'ordinary' plaster - didn't work. Re-plastering with LIME PLASTER, 'Limelight' the brand is one I used, WORKS - though not completely, in some walls, where after re-painting, paint has come off some small patches (maybe didn't wait long enough before repainting). The idea is that the wall 'breathes' much more, and the moisture leaves the wall, rather than being trapped within it - and is often recommended for Victorian/Edwardian houses. If you have this done, look for a plasterer with experience of doing it (many don't) - it requires, 2 base coats and one top coat. Have found a de-humidifier helps the lime plaster to 'work', but not much use with an existing already damp wall.

Damp will only rise 1m or so due to capillary action. If it is higher than this you have either condensation or a leak.

My last house was over 100 years old. Got some wiring work done and the electrician didn’t want to work tin the space under the floorboards because there was white dusty/crumby stuff down there. Got a «damp specialist» in who told me I had rising damp and various other damp problems. He wanted to do extensive works, including taking up all the floorboards downstairs, which would have cost over £7,000.

Long story short, there was no damp, no rising damp, and the guy was just trying to rip me off.

I agree that the problem is much more likely to be water ingress from above - flashing, missing slate, blocked guttering - or from the blocked up up chimney. I had water come in from an old fireplace, and for a few months after it was fixed, I saw white, powdery, flaky stuff on the wall. I just brushed it off, kept the room warm and ventilated, and it stopped after a while when the wall was properly dried out.

So OP,
Kind of a checklist here to run through as the most Important thing with damp is to get the cause correct before you start doing stuff to correct or manage it.

• location of damp- is it on the wall itself or the part of the wall that is still chimney stack?

Next posts will be things you can check as sources of damp. So first are the wall grates. If you go outside and look along the bottom of your exterior brick walls, you should see these little metal grates integrated into the bottom of the brick wall. (Fig 2). These must be kept open and not obscured by earth or plants...it’s best to have 2ft gravel from wall before any bushes or grass. Some people will block them up fearing bugs or mice (you can put screening over to do that).

These are the Victorian forerunner of the air bricks mentioned by @Grasspigeons in her/his 1930s home and everything they said is spot on about over time often the earth builds up outside the house and partially or fully obscures these grates or air bricks, causing a mild form of rising damp.

Continuing with looking outside for sources of damp that tend to come with fall/winter weather....

• check roof- most things can be spotted from ground as a break in the pattern of slate or roof tiles.

• check guttering- Make sure all gutters are cleaned out and now blockages. Make sure leaves and dirt and moss have not blocked up the drains the downspouts empty into. Then check for leaky seams or wrong slope due to sagging. I can only really do this in the rain. So stand outside and watch where the water goes is it backing up and overflowing instead of going down down spout? Are there leaky seams leaving water to drip on window sills or slide down wall (down spout leak)?

Basically, roof/gutter issues above will cause penetrating damp by getting into your wall. The inside of the home and wall is warmer and drier so if water gets into the wall from the outside, the wall acts similar to a paper towel and sucks the water through the wall to the interior where it will begin to evaporate..creating a damp patch on inside wall.

Now, @Daftasabroom helpfully mentioned condensation which is also a potential cause but the good news is that lifestyle changes & using proper repair materials like @chalkiewhite mentioned regarding lime plaster can usually fix this. This could very well be a cause of your damp because usually summer everything is fine and dandy and then when the weather turns, its suddenly a problem.

Condensation occurs especially in cooler months & winter when we try and shut up the house to weather proof it. So insides, the humidity level, or amount of water vapor in the warm air increases relative to outside. Because the walls back then were solid built and not cavity built, the wall is cold...so as the interior air hits it the water then condenses onto the outside of the wall. But condensation can also happen INSIDE the wall too because the inner part of the wall is that much warmer than the outer due to residual heat. This is a good page explaining how this happens with pictures of condensation related damp:
www.heritage-house.org/damp-and-condensation/about-condensation.html

While that heritage house link has a good explanation of condensation damp, ignore the marketing crap. Gave me a chuckle with their “don’t get a dehumidifier” and then trying to sell me built in vents with dehumidifiers! You also don’t need a humidity detector to know if inside is warmer than the outside. Use your spider senses.

To control the condensation basically limit water vapor- so vent bathrooms and kitchens using vent fans or open a window. Dry as few clothes as possible indoors, use a condensing tumble dryer, and even in winter crack downstairs door (I put mine on its chain) and open upper floor window for twenty minutes to vent house once a day. This vents all thecwarm water vapor laden air outside and lets in the colder dry air. Don’t ever do when it’s rainy/wetter outside than in. I keep my house the equivalent of 19C- the recommendation to keep it at 15C is really about staying below mould growth temperature which if you control your condensation you don’t need to worry about, you don’t have to have a cold house.

This is were carpeting comes in. Switching to wood floors with area rugs also helps the house breathe. It’s a reason why a lot of people in older homes are tearing up the carpets and just repairing, sanding and refinishing the original floor boards. I know you said you plan to do this and it’s a good plan. Just make sure no plastic backed rugs!

Ok, you’ve got great advice from everyone on this thread. Damp is something you can figure out yourself. Once you get a feel for how water behaves it’s like playing detective.

I found this to be a really useful link about damp in old houses!

www.heritage-house.org/damp-and-condensation/managing-damp-in-old-buildings.html

Start by (as previous posters have more eloquently put!) checking for leaks, and making sure you are ventilating and heating your house properly (i.e. not just whacking the heating on high when it feels freezing and then turning it off once you're house is tropical). And don't have anyone inject anything chemical-ly into your walls!

It's 'rising damp' if the bottom foot or two of wall (3' max) is damp to the touch - the damp rises by capillary action. The USUAL SOLUTION for Victorian houses is to re-plaster the bottom 3' of wall with LIME based plaster (Limelight, the leading brand), which enables the wall to 'breath', and release the damp, as it rises. Re-plastering is is a messy business - but worked for me. If you already have rising damp, further ventilating your house, by opening wndows etc. will have little effect

do please post some photos, both close-up (with your hand, to shoe scale) and standing back to show the whole wall.

You'd be surpised how often damp patches are next to a (broken) drain or a (leaking) pipe or under a (dripping) gutter, or on the other side of the wall to a shower or bath or garden tap. None of these faults can be cured by silicone injections, but if you invite a damp-proofing salesman into your home, he will try to sell you damp-proofing.

THANK YOU all so much! I really appreciate all the detailed and thorough replies, I'm so grateful to everyone for taking the time to try and help :)

I'll take some photos as best I can this evening as soon as kids are in bed. Thanks so much again

Ok so here are some pictures. The bright patches are the overhead light shining onto the wall. The door leads into the tiny (illegally built, I think around ten years ago) conservatory which is useful but I'm wondering now if it's part of the problem? Weird that it seems to be just that wall next to it which is showing damp. To the left of the wall is the chimney breast which as I mentioned, has been blocked up, no idea when.

Does that make sense @PigletJohn? Any more thoughts?