Dad offered to help with renovations. Now raining on every parade.

[RenoCat]

I want to preface this by saying that I know that I am fortunate to even be having these issues, and that I am grateful for the offer of help, and that this is not about money.

My dad is a builder by trade. DH and I (late 20s) have just bought our first property and and it needs a fair bit of work. Dad assured me that he would be happy to help free of charge and wants to see me happy etc etc. Wonderful, thought naive little me.

His attitude has changed somewhat since I said this was our starter home and we will want to move on in about 5 years' time.

We've not actually started any work yet but we keep clashing over things and it's turning an exciting time for us into a bitter experience.

Everything I want, he will try to talk me out of it. He is basically suggesting doing the house up with neutral basics but I don't want to feel like I still live in a rental. I've had it up to here with black and white and grey and beige and cheap carpets and laminate and putting up with things as they are and trying to show my style and personality through cushions and artwork and other impermanent things. I loooooove colour and patterns and I feel like I've done my time and now I should be able to pick things I like FOR MY OWN HOUSE.

DH doesn't care either way as long as he gets his gaming station set up

I'm now in a kind of fuzzy headspace where I can't tell if I'm being stubborn because I'm sick of him challenging me on everything and I need to "win" or whether I really do feel very passionately about a certain feature.

Some of the things we've disagreed on:

I want a wooden floor, dad says we should get vinyl or laminate as it "lasts longer"
I want shaker style cabinets in the kitchen with a solid wood counter. Dad says it's too expensive and we should get a quartz or something
I want nice tiles in the bathroom - either a feature wall where the bath/shower is with plain complementary tiles on the other walls, or something a little bit dramatic like one type of tile on every wall e.g. blue squares a la mid century modern. Dad says we should just tile where we need a splashback and paint the rest. I think that looks cheap and unfinished and I don't want it in my house. I don't mind paying for few more tiles.
I want wallpaper in one of the bedrooms, he says we should just paint it.
He will suggest random extravagant things like underfloor heating!

I feel like a petulant child, but I think backing out now and saying that I don't need his help will be like throwing fuel on a fire. My dad is not English either, so helping his children set up a home is a source of great pride and a significant cultural "thing", so I feel extra stuck and annoyed.

But quartz is much more expensive than wood

And our wooden floors are about 200 years old.

So given he’s so fundamentally wrong about those two things I’d just go ahead Sbs to what I wanted. It’ll need redecorating if you sell in 5 years time anyway 🤷🏼‍♀️

I hear both sides of your argument, and I think you and your dad should both get credit for what you are each getting right.

He is right about the flooring: in a starter home, underfloor heating is a big selling point where you have hard floors, but you are right about nice floors, although engineered wood maybe a good compromise.

He is also right about tiles in the bathroom; going lavish is a waste, but might a really splendid smaller feature raise the luxe factor enough to please? Mine (now 10 years old) are oversized grey rectangular ones, and still look very contemporary but cost little more than bog standard 200mm square white ones psm. Fewer of them, so quicker to do too. But colour match the grouting and avoid patterns, except for the feature.

I also think he's right about overspending on the kitchen counter. I have just done my huge forever home kitchen and DH refused to spend 3x the money to buy quartz, marble or Corian, or any other material I liked. I bought laminate, but only 20mm thick, and made my patient (and frankly, genius) joiner strengthen it everywhere rather than the ugly 40mm standard stuff. 12 metres of laminate (in a dark marble pattern) cost under £700, and everyone who sees pictures thinks it's real and cost a bomb, because it's the same thickness as most stone counters. But obviously it's not cool to touch like marble.

Finally I think you should choose any damn colour that floats your boat. Paint is cheap and needs redoing at intervals. If you want to sell in five years, give it a reboot to whatever is on trend then.

Hope this is useful and enjoy having your first home.

Your dad has half a point, in that you shouldn't spend more than you can get back, but I would consider some of his suggestions a bit bizarre.

As a buyer, I would much prefer a house with fashionable personality. (By which I mean you can use colour / pattern etc but it has to be current, not 80s for example!). I have personally seen very standard houses sell very quickly and for more money because they are decorated like this and not like a rental box. Good quality workmanship sells, even if it's not the exact taste of the buyer because it creates the impression that it's been well looked after.

Underfloor heating can be good, but only out it in if it will actually increase the value of the property. Same for tiling: your Dad's option looks cheap and basic, so I'd definitely do more than that, but also you don't need to do the whole room. Paint is easy to change if required when you come to buy, but you'll only need that if it's really out there. Flooring, again something between both your suggestions probably makes most sense.

But at the end of the day, it's your home (not just a house / asset) and you have to enjoy living it in whilst you're there, not your dad.

Keep the bathroom neutral. Anyone looking to buy in five years' time can just paint over your wallpaper or change the kitchen worktops relatively cheaply, but retiling a whole bathroom will cost serious money.

Wooden work tops are a NIGHTMARE

I disagree about the bathroom. Generally it's a pretty small room, I don't think the extra cost of tiling is prohibitive (unless you go for crazy expensive tiles)

A fully tiled bathroom looks so much nicer imo it's worth the extra cost. You've got to live in it every day for the next 5 years.

However an expensive kitchen is £££££ more so that might be better to compromise on if a cheaper option makes a significant difference.

We bought a house for 5 years, and ended up there 12 years because there was a recession. We had to repaint 3 times due to wear and tear during that time. The kitchen we put in was very neutral except 12 years later neutral looked different anyway and the buyers ripped it out on the first day. We didnt do the bathroom because we werent staying so i had a horrid bsthroom for all that time. However i must say, when we did move it felt nice to be spending money on things that i hooed to get the benefit of, and there would have been less money if we'd spent it on the other house so i am glad really.

Honestly you're looking at staying for 5 years, not 1 or 2. I'd make it nice - after 5 years you'll probably want to freshen up the decor to sell anyway so it makes little difference whether you make it colourful now or not.

I like colour and pattern too so it's rare for a room in my home to stay the same for 5 years anyway.

And like a Pp I'm so bored of seeing beige and grey boxes for sale.

I only like wooden worktops, even though they are a pain, but I would pick your battles given you may intend move in 5 years, but market may dictate otherwise. So I would listen more to him on things that are harder or more expensive to change.

You can add as much colour as you like by painting and accessories as a few tins of paint are easy and cheap enough to sort out most walls. The floor I would put laminate down probably as in my experience, it needs to be changed after four or five years anyway so you could save for your floor then.

Honestly, I would go more neutral with the bathroom colour wise. It can be expensive and a hassle to retile a bathroom and it can put a lot of buyers off. We did have patterned tilee, but in a neutral colour.

It is your home at the end of the day and you need to live in it, so decide what things are the most important to you. That way you could say, well I hear you on x, but feel strongly about y so we are going to do this. Of course if your dad will only help if you take on all of his suggestions then you have bigger problems.

Make it nice by all means, but medium budget nice, not forever, carry me out in a box budget nice.

If I were you, I’d get a mood board together and then shop around to achieve the overall style for a budget that’s sensible.

Def go underfloor heating - and engineered wood, not solid. And NOT laminate. I've got Karndean wood-effect planks (Had to go over both wood floor and concrete so was the only option) and I love it. Hardwearing and beautiful.

Tiles - are tiles.

Wooden worktops are a nightmare and WILL go black with mould within the year. Go for quartz or corian. They are naturally Anti-bacterial and super-hard-wearing. And look fab.

Dad is right in much of this, but painting and tiling and stuff- your choice.

Your dad has the right idea, you don’t have to go with it though. Besides not getting wooden work tops in the kitchen, they’ll be rank before the years out. But you could do one section next to the sink or something like a built in chopping block style bit.

I’d also say it depends on how rigid the 5 year plan is, ie it’s a 1/2 bed and you’re definitely after 5 kids n twins run in the family/you’re already pregnant and it won’t last storage wise. DP plans on moving, longer plan 18years now, but we’re in a 3 bed with more outdoor space than we’ll ever need, in due dc2 next year and we’re flooring the loft next for storage space, we’ve done most of what we wanted but over longer timeframes and finding what we liked but on sale.. bedrooms have only been carpeted and painted neutral (they needed it but obviously planning for kids you can’t pick your schemes in advance lol)

Agree on what he will help you on and then either do the rest yourself or get someone else in. And avoid wooden kitchen worktops - we had one in our first home and it was a lot of extra work to keep dry and reseal/oil it every year. Much happier with the composite one we have in our current home as it's much easier to keep clean

We have done up and sold two houses in London so have a bit of experience.

If you want to use colours on the walls I'd paint because it's easier to repaint than it it to replace wallpaper or tiles. You'll probably need to repaint in 5 years anyway especially if you want to sell.

Engineered wood flooring is excellent, the top layer is real wood (get 4-6mm top layer so it is thick enough for sanding if needed).

I don't like fully tiled bathrooms, too echoey! I'd say use neutral tiles where needed and paint the rest of the walls a brighter colour.

Wooden worktop from Ikea is cheap and looks good, it's easy enough to sand and oil if it gets marked. Maybe have some other material around the sink though- I don't know how pricey quartz is - because wooden worktops round the sink get black and mouldy very quickly.

First of all I want to say ‘Give your Dad a big hug’ I loved my Dad a lot, but we often disagreed (mainly because we were so alike!🤣) He was going to help us renovate our current house, but he died suddenly (only in his 60’s) I’d give anything to be arguing with him about flooring! 😢. And we WOULD have argued. I regret not listening more, and not appreciating him.

However, I DO still understand your frustration as my Mum drives me absolutely batshit, but I know one day I’ll miss her too and have regrets!

A few comments on your actual disagreements...

Some of the things we've disagreed on:
I want a wooden floor, dad says we should get vinyl or laminate as it "lasts longer"

As I said we are renovating here and the builders and my kitchen fitters have said the exact same thing. I had already decided on engineered wood flooring, or Karndean but they’re all trying to talk me into click together vinyl flooring (B&Q it similar) so I have said I will go and have a look at it I asked on a thread the other day if anyone had any views in it. The area it’s going in, isn’t very big, so I will be getting what I think is best - I’m semi open minded to them being right (semi. I’m still thinking Karndean)

I want shaker style cabinets in the kitchen with a solid wood counter. Dad says it's too expensive and we should get a quartz or something

Say what? Strange thing to say. Quartz is hugely more expensive and design of cabinet makes feck all difference. DIY ONLINE kitchens is brilliant They have a fabulous showroom in Pontefract but you can do it all online. I’ve researched a LOT and think they’re, by far, the best value for money.

I want nice tiles in the bathroom - either a feature wall where the bath/shower is with plain complementary tiles on the other walls, or something a little bit dramatic like one type of tile on every wall e.g. blue squares a la mid century modern. Dad says we should just tile where we need a splashback and paint the rest. I think that looks cheap and unfinished and I don't want it in my house. I don't mind paying for few more tiles

I knew exactly what I wanted and took over a year to find the tiles I was unsure about whether to fully tile or tile and paint (but more tile than your Dad has suggested as I think ‘bare minimum tiling’ looks REALKY cheap). I would say go fir what you want, but be mindful of the square meter price if the tiles as it dies add up quickly and you can get get lovely tiles without spending a fortune. (I ended up with high tiling around the Bath with a shower over it and rub height around the rest of the room because I thought my tiles (large & mid grey) would make it too dark feel a bit closed in. Plus it was partly taken out of my hands because the ceiling (whole bloody house) isn’t straight, but it’s less obvious painted than tiled).

I want wallpaper in one of the bedrooms, he says we should just paint it

Do what YOU want, but you’d be daft to buy extremely expensive paper - but don’t get the thin shitty cheap stuff either.

He will suggest random extravagant things like underfloor heating!

I’ve decided against it because we might rent this out or sell it and I don’t think the hassle is worth it, plus it changes the height if the floor compared to the 3 floors (yes 3 into a bloody kitchen) that lead in/off it.

I feel like a petulant child, but I think backing out now and saying that I don't need his help will be like throwing fuel on a fire. My dad is not English either, so helping his children set up a home is a source of great pride and a significant cultural "thing", so I feel extra stuck and annoyed

Yeah I get that!!

However, you just need to hVe a think about what he (and everyone else) has said, then decide what YOU want. It’s your house and your money and as importantly, you’re the one living there every day.

Have what YOY want, but be sensible with where you spend your money as some you’ll get back when you sell decent flooring) and some you won’t (wallpaper)

Kick DP UP THE BUM & Get him interested in YOUR HOME & Have fun 🌷 it’s supposed to be exciting having your first owned house together

Excuse all the fat finger /iPhone typos.

The only one I’ll make a point of correcting is that the tiles are RIB height, not rub height!

😖😖😖😖

@XingMing

I don’t suppose you would oust a couple of photos of your worktops would you?

I’m thinking about laminate because the kitchen doesn’t warrant the cost of quartz/corian/silestone especially when we might rent it out, BUT I can’t find any nice laminate (I want white/light grey though, not dark like yours - I think the darker ones probably are easier to make look good)

M

Your dads idea for underfloor heating isn't so daft
Underfloor heating isn't necessarily an expensive choice - basically you don't need to heat to the same high temperature that regular heating requires to get the same comfortable temperature
It also has a 'luxury' feeling so people find it a good selling point
In order to work efficiently it does require good insulation and I always recommend good controls and thermostats.
Wet underfloor is cheaper to run but harder to retro fit
Electric is easier to install but more expensive to run

How about meeting him halfway - take his advice on somethings (especially the more expensive stuff) but also don't cave on everything, injecting a bit of personality on a five year plan isn't a bad idea as by the time you come to sell if it's past it's best you can always paint over it.

I know builders do stuff all the time but that doesn't mean they necessarily have good taste or judgement (I've seen some crappy suggestions by seasoned builders just because that's how we've always done it) - professionally I always take their advice, nod and sometimes just go in another direction.
The tricky thing is that your related to him and he's helping you to do the work so perhaps use the shit sandwich approach
Say yes to one of his suggestions, no to another and yes to the last one - it's a good way of not making him feel like you are disagreeing with everything he says and smooth the path.

@IncrediblySadToo. Pictures of the counters

To some extent your Dad is right. Quartz is a much better choice for a worktop than wood which is easily damaged or marked. Good quality laminate with a wood veneer is much cheaper than solid wood, easier to install and maintain and more resistant to wear. And I’d do the bathroom in a neutral tile and bring in colour with accessories, because it costs a fortune to re-tile so a buyer will be put off if they don’t like the colour.

@XingMing love your worktops! Can you tell us where you got them as I'm interested too?
Was thinking of replacing our current laminate with iroko - solid hardwood from reclaimed science lab benches - but all this talk is putting me off! Then again, I don't love the feeling of laminate so don't know if I can justify the cost of replacing them only with new laminate ...

I actually think your dad’s advice is terrible. Under floor heating is a pain in the arse, doesn’t work as well as wall radiators and doesn’t really make enough of a difference (even if it works properly which it very rarely does) to justify the price. We never used ours when we had it.

Wood flooring lasts much longer than by vinyl/laminates and also adds value to a house.

Re wall papering vs painting I don’t really see a difference. I don’t like wall paper that much myself but it’s not necessarily going to be more difficult to strip and resurface than it is to pain over a colour you don’t like (I had to do four coats over beige once).

Tiles are obviously quite expensive but kind of necessary.

The worktops are the 20mm Breccia marble from Wickes and lots of other builder's merchants. I saw it everywhere. And it's cheap, although as my counters are extra wide, I needed breakfast bar lengths and had them cut by the fitter. He was a complete perfectionist so I probably have him to thank for the quality of the finish.

Op you can have the kind of house you want without overspending, what your dad suggests is often the same price if you shop around.

Tiles can be dead cheap. Lots of end of lines and new items online at bargain prices.