Elderly Neighbours, Party Wall and our Loft Conversion

[migoga]

Hello all! We recently brought our dream home in a lovely area. It's a semi detached bungalow and approx a third of the bungalows along the street have had a loft conversion done. We bought the house which is currently too small for us - with a view to doing the same. We have spend a few thousand pounds so far on drawings and having the pre work done. We have planning permission under permitted consent. Our elderly neighbours have been LOVELY to us since we moved in - gifts for our children etc. I mentioned to them a month or so ago about the conversion and the elderly lady said 'it has to be done'. They have now seen our plans and we need a party wall agreement. This has really upset them and they are appointing an adviser. I feel TERRIBLE. I think they can see the full impact now they have seen the plans - we will need to put steels in the wall between our properties. Our dormer will overlook their garden. We could potentially cause damage to their property. My partner still very much wants to go ahead with the project. I want to move!! I'm so worried about the amount of stress we will cause them. Any ideas? How can I make this easier for them? I do know that if we hadn't bought the property, a builder was the other interested party. And even if we sold it now, I think a developer would be the one to snap it up!

That's a very helpful comment Mizz. Did you appoint a surveyor? Was any damage caused by using the party wall? Think I need to keep in mind that there is lots of building work happening along our road, about a third of the bungalows are converted, our bungalow is obviously in need of refurbishment - they must have realised that the new owner would make changes.

It sounds as though you have done and are doing everything that you can.

Far cry from my elderly DMum's neighbours who did everything wrong. Applied for a 2 storey side extension without warning her or discussing it. Were really awkward about the party wall agreement - in that they refused to get one for ages. In the end my DM had to get her own surveyor in to check things out, who then wrote to them advising that they needed one. Then they changed the plans massively without informing her. Then the building works went on for months, with a load of cowboy builders leaving concrete all over her drive, splashed on her car etc, dumping rubbish in her garden, blocking her drive and leaving nails and screws all over the place meaning she ended up with 3 punctures during the building works. The neighbours were really good and friendly to my DM prior to this, but now haven't spoken to her for 2 years. It has really upset her. She has done nothing wrong, didn't moan, or complain, just wanted to make sure her property was protected.

So my main advice would be to try and keep talking with your neighbours. Reassure them as much as possible. Try to prevent your builders causing them any problems, and keep things as clean and tidy as possible.

Thank you Evan, that's also very helpful. I think they talk over us because they're anxious - letters would be a good way to communicate.

OP you come across as very pushy.

Stop pressuring the poor neighbours with bloody flowers and teas. You are only doing it because you want then to think how lovely you are. Baking cakes FFS.

When we talk to them verbally What other way is there to talk?

If you want to do something, change the plans for the windows if they worry about that.

They don't like you anymore, they don't have to and I don't blame them. Get over it.

Thank you See. Very helpful too. Your DM sounds lovely. Finding considerate builders is my next task - any recommendations in the Surrey area??

What is the dormer window the window for? If it's a bathroom you could reassure them that the glass would be obscured and so you wouldn't be able to see into their garden.

If it's a bedroom window you could offer to use semi-obscured glass - perhaps half way up or commit to nets/voile curtains?

As for the party wall stuff I can fully understand why they would want their own surveyor - I would too. It's just to protect their interests.

Do you have a satellite dish? If so you can explain to them that yours will be moved to X and you'll have theirs moved to a similar position at your expense, sooner rather than later. If you get this moved for them before work begins it may ease their minds.

I can’t see anything here that makes the age of your neighbours relevant. You are doing disruptive works that will impact the quality of enjoyment of their property. The fixation on them being elderly is patronising and irrelevant

It's a shame that there are not more restrictions on what can be done to a bungalow. Where are people who cannot manage stairs etc expected to live?

All the bungalows around my area now seem to be bought by people with the sole intention of converting lofts and extending into gardens.

Perhaps younger, healthier people without mobility issues should be prevented from buying up bungalows and bloody well converting them to houses...inflicting stress on the elderly (and others with mobility issues) who bought their bungalows hoping to spend the remainder of their days in peace (free from screaming kids, bloody trampolines, sodding barbeques, diy at all hours, balls over fences, loud music, etc).

We will all get old (if we are lucky) and many will struggle to find accommodation suitable for failing health, mobility and wish for some flipping peace and quiet.

You want a house suitable for a growing family? Then bloody well buy one, don't buy a bungalow!

Keep being lovely OP, more loveliness is needed in bleak times. Flowers and cake and popping over are lovely, and much better than distant self-interest. Don't agree that this kind of care is patronising - it's worrying that anyone would think so.

Maybe they need a little space to take it all in though. Give it a few days and let everyone's reactions settle.

Wow Chadonnay. Yes I do want them to think we are lovely, so they feel they can communicate with us through the process. Talk - I meant communicate. I don't really see the point in posting if you just want to be negative. Or perhaps you are demonstrating how not to behave towards neighbours...

You sound generally quite considerate so I'm surprised you planned a dormer window that overlooks their garden. I'd be very upset about this if I was previously not overlooked.

Well, I’ve managed to live next to my neighbours for over 15 years and through quite a few building works with no problems

Seems you haven’t.

I don't think you can stipulate that certain types of housing are for certain types of people. You can't segregate - would lead to all sorts of problems!

Also, did you really expect only positive replies?

That’s a bit odd

No - constructive replies. Not nit picking or bitter.

Well, get rid of the windows and stop harassing them. No one wants a cake your daughter has baked, except possibly you. Or any cake nodded in this situation.

Hope that’s constructive enough.

indeed

We have had similar situation, neighbours lovely until they got party wall notice when they kind of freaked out. I think the wording of a standard party wall notice is quite technical and worrying (talks about being in dispute etc) we had them round and discussed it and they were ok. I think your neighbours appointing a party wall surveyor is normal and actually a good thing as they will possibly set their mind at rest that what you are doing is standard etc (assuming it is).

I think flowers and cake are nice things to do (although you might want to save something in reserve for when the dust and noise starts!)

Under the party wall act I believe it’s a legal requirement that they have an appointed adviser (a chartered surveyor usually) I think you are required to meet the costs too.

There is nothing you can do to make them feel better. If I had lived quietly for years with my private garden and was suddenly overlooked I’d be very upset too. Haven’t you been told you have to use obscure glass?
Those saying OP should persist, it’s her dream home, no it’s not. They want to turn it into their dream home by spoiling what well may have been someone else’s dream home.

They haven’t mentioned being overlooked, only about their satellite dish. They have had an extension done in the past, which blocks light from our side - and there is an obvious wall. Unfortunately any building work will cause a change - and the works falls under permitted development. Surely if we were doing anything radical and distressing in the eyes of the law, this would not be allowed - or we’d need planning permission.

Also think surveyor is a good thing. The flowers etc are more to show that we want to be open, and that we are aware we are causing them inconvenience.