Buying a house without building regs certificate

[Nameynamechangeforthis]

We are in the process of buying a house and it has emerged that a wall has been removed that they don't have a building regs certificate for.

They have offered to pay for an indemnity but this only protects us against any legal action taken because of the lack of sign off, it doesn't protect us against any damage to the house.

How would you proceed with this?

Get it checked by a Structural engineer

Is the purchase price low enough to cover the cost of doing it again properly? You will need a surveyor or engineer to see if there are cracks or other damage.

Not as bad as buying a house with a non-compliant loft conversion, where it costs more to rip it out and do it again than if you bought a different house and started from scratch.

How long ago was the wall taken out?

If it was 15 years ago any sign of a problem would very likely have shown itself by now, if it was done earlier this year perhaps not.

Speak to your surveyor. Ask them whether they noticed any cause for concern. Obviously the surveyor will only be able to advise on what they will have seen, and can't tell what's hidden behind plaster.

How long ago was the wall removed? Was it a load baring wall?

Just because it doesn’t have a building regs cert doesn’t necessarily mean there is something wrong with it, it could just mean the paperwork is not in place. Get it checked out and base your decision on whether there is a problem with the work.

Purely based on the fact that there is a wall in the same location upstairs, it appears to be load bearing. It is a long wall and they have removed half of it to open up downstairs.

The survey didn't flag up anything major but it did point out cracks above the windows at either end of this newly opened up room (the wall would have been across the middle of it). They survey just said they needed to be filled/repointed. Given though that these windows are at the end of a room that's had a supporting wall removed they seem a lot more concerning now.

Waiting for the surveyor to call back at the moment.

I don't know how long ago yet, conveyancer has gone back to sellers to ask when it was removed (assuming it was during their time there) and what work were actually done at the time.

If we get it checked by a structural engineer, where does that then leave us?

I.e. if it all fine, how easy/hard is it to get retrospective approval. I know it is difficult for extensions because you need to check foundations but is it simpler for something like removal of a wall?

Obviously if it isn't fine then is it case of getting the wall reinstated? What profession would be best to advise on different outcomes? Our conveyancer is very tightlipped.

@pigletjohn

so worst case scenario, if it hasn't been done properly it would be a case of getting a support put in and then signed of by building control? Is that worst case remedial measures?

Or is worst case remedial measures what we would get a structural engineer to advise on?

"Just because it doesn’t have a building regs cert doesn’t necessarily mean there is something wrong with it"

Not necessarily.

in the same way that a car with no MoT, and a driver with no licence, might be perfectly safe.

But if the job had been done properly, why wouldn't you, er, do the job properly?

To do it properly, it will need, basically, a steel joist of sufficient dimensions, correctly fitted, to bear the weight of the wall above, standing on brick piers (exceptionally, built into the walls at each end) with dense padstones, standing on adequate foundations (might mean digging up the floor), and the steelwork encased in plasterboard and skimmed to make it fire-resisting.

That should be it.

Any local builder will have done dozens, if not hundreds.

They might have skimped on the foundations (too much effort), the piers (don't look nice), the size of the steel (cost), or the fireproofing. Or maybe it's all satisfactory. Doing any of that after the event would mean taking up the floor, and probably replastering and redecoration, which is very tiresome when it could all have been done right the first time.

Thanks @pigletjohn that's really helpful.

Tiresome, but not insurmountable, and we would be prepared to get that done if we could reduce the offer price accordingly.

Assuming of course, that there hasn't been any structural damage caused by having the wall above unsupported? I assume that could also be identified by getting a structural engineer to have a look?

More questions if you don't mind - would a structural engineer need to dig up floor etc to check foundations before they could confirm everything ok?

Things that are missing or not done at all will be visible (piers).

Or can be seen by looking under the floor (foundations)

To see the steel, padstones and cladding might mean hacking off some plaster, but possibly they could drill some holes and peer in with one of those cameras on a rod.

They will probably have a fair idea within ten seconds of walking through the door.

The existing owners will probably refuse to let him do more than look.

My understanding is that it would just be necessary to expose the steel joist to confirm it is of the correct size to take the weight of whatever the wall was previously supporting and the joist sits on piers correctly.

There should be no need to look at the foundations.

the piers might not have any.

I've seen walls built off floorboards often enough.

I think it would be difficult to get retrospective approval.

It is normally retrospective approval /or an Indemnity

It is normally a condition of and indemnity policy that you do not approach the council,and doing so would invalidate the policy

It is normally a condition of and indemnity policy that you do not approach the council,and doing so would invalidate the policy

True, but if you get the necessary works done you no longer need the policy so might as well get it signed off so there aren't future issues if you come to sell (this is what I'm hoping to do with a chimney breast that was removed donkeys years ago on the ground floor only, but has no paperwork or visible support...)

@awkwardpaws

I think we have this issue too, as I haven't seen anything regarding a removed chimney breast (though it hasn't been brought up as an issue by our solicitor).

Can I ask how much it's going to cost you in remedial works?

Also, anyone care to hazard a ball park figure for remedial works IF the removed wall hasn't been supported properly?

Not a clue - we need to get the floorboards up upstairs and see if there's anything supporting it. Tbh it's been pretty low down the priority list so it'll probably some time later this year.
If it's supported, then my council charge about £250 to inspect and sign off. If it's not, then we'll need to pay for a beam etc.
The other option was removing the rest of it but it's a party wall and the neighbours wanted a surveyor (which we'd have to pay for) so it would have cost quite a bit.