Asbestos testing - Vendor CF?

[Chebs]

Hi all. Just hoping for some opinions/advice please?

We put an offer on a property early May, which was accepted. The chain is literally us as 1st time buyers and the property is vacant. Since then all the necessaries have been done: decision in principal, lender survey, solicitor instructed and building survey done.

We got a building survey rather than a homebuyer as there is a decent chunk of work (rewire, new kitchen etc) required and the place is covered in artex. Sure enough the survey brought up a high risk of asbestos and due to the volume of works required to update a renovation survey for asbestos was required by an accredited surveyor. Because this involves a number of samples being taken from each "risk area" we were advised to ask our vendor to have this done/paid for to progress the sale. In the meantime, we would look to get all the other (!) areas of concern quoted so that we are clear what we are taking on.

We explained to the estate agent over the phone and by email that depending on the quotes we receive and the results of the asbestos testing would depend on our revising the original offer, or alternatively some works may need to be completed before we proceed. They agreed after reading our buildings survey and said they would contact the vendor to advise.

2 and a half weeks later (we were on holiday for one of those) we have an email from the EA advising that the property is confirmed as free of asbestos (excellent) so I asked for the relevant certifications etc to be sent to us/solicitor so that when we begin works we can show our trades people. They hadn't received anything at that point other than an email from the vendor, so chased it up with him. 24hrs later we get a lab report from a company 300 miles away from our local area, which I found strange. Also, it mentioned only one sample tested - whereas i was advised a renovation survey requires at least one sample from each area of concern. I put my worries in writing, for them to tell me that the vendor bought a sample kit off Ebay, took the sample himself from one area (the most recently refurbished/artex area) and sent it to a lab.

I have explained that this would not suffice as we would not get a trades person to work on the house with that documentation/background. They agreed that they were shocked the vendor did this instead of the formal in depth survey they agreed to. They have since asked him to get the proper survey done, and he has said to put it back on the market!

Is it me? Am I expecting too much? I mean, if there is asbestos there, it's going to cost thousands to remove and reskim all the walls etc vs the works originally planned. Now that our survey has highlighted a potential issue, should we drop out or another buyer comes on the scene, they will need to advise that this is a problem. So the vendor is back to square one with this?

Wwyd in this situation?

Sorry - this turned out pretty long!

Isn’t it the norm for buyers to pay for all surveys and checks?!

It is, yes. But the invasive testing required for this kind of Asbestos check meant that all 3 companies we called advised the seller needed to have it done.

We took this including all emails from all 3 companies to the agent, who agreed it needed to be the seller to do it.

Would have been happy to do it via one of our trusted trades people - rather than have the vendor do a DIY one!

I'm honestly not sure....it's quite normal to have asbestos in homes of a certain age...I know mine has. Isn't it a given almost?

I would imagine if the house needs lots of renovation and is vacant, that the price is reflective of that?

Also, a survey will tell you to do all sorts of checks. Electrical etc. It's to cover their backs.

When you buy a house, you surely know if it's n older property that things will need doing.

Like I said. I may be being unfair.

The price is refectant of the current interior. However the survey has uprooted a fair few areas of concern that you wouldn't get from a valuation. Of course, the vast majority are all things you expect on fair wear and tear.

The asbestos is something that we would have to deal with if present. Disturbing it in say, a rewire job (dire requirement) or taking a wall down, would be a huge health hazard. So if it is present the EA has agreed that the vendor needs to consider that the offer would be open to renegotiation.

Although how much of that they have put across to the vendor I am unsure - based on his reaction!

Seeing as the vendor's actions would currently indicate that the likelihood is that asbestos is present, then proceed as if it were. If that means dropping your offer or pulling out, then do that.

If asbestos isn't present, the vendor will be quick enough to either commission a proper survey to demonstrate this.

If it is present, they will either accept your new offer or put the property back on the market, thereby delaying their sale (in possibly a falling market, depending on where they are) and risking the same issue coming up again next time.

If you lose this one, you still will find another property.

Thanks NewName. This was my gut feeling - how could I even know the test he performed was in the house in question!

With him being a bit dodgy about the testing, and posing as though he had done as per the buildings survey recommendation I am worried what else he might try to pull.

Ho hum, we will see if he is going to go ahead with the actual registered test and go from there.

The house I’m looking at likely has asbestos due to the age. I will be paying for the survey and checks due to being the buyer! This EA does not seem to be working for the seller! If I was the seller I would be changing agent..... if you want it checked then pay for it. Yes the seller will have to allow access.

I think you should be paying for the asbestos survey.

I know we were going to when we were going to buy a house with artex.

In houses of a certain age you can almost guarantee the presence of artex. Many could probably do with rewiring. Surely they are priced accordingly? What did the mortgage valuation survey come out at?

I am happy to pay for it, in fact would prefer it in all honesty as we know who we would be dealing with and that the right one would be done - it's not just the estate agent that has told us the vendor should do it, it's our surveyor and the companies we have contacted in regards to the tests recommended ( we contacted them because we wanted to understand what would be needed and what our trades people would need when taking on work )

Do you think I should approach them and suggest we pay for a contractor we are happy with to do it?

The EA is pretty atrocious with communication both to us and the vendor, I worry that they may fuck this up as well!

If you were my purchaser I would tell you to pay for the asbestos survey you require.
There are a great many houses who may (or may not) have asbestos in their artex, depending when it was applied. Any house with artex ceilings that were built pre 80s should be viewed with suspicion, but, this is all part and parcel of buying a house. You've viewed it, you've identified it as a potential problem. You then ask a builder how much it would cost to skim or remove and adjust your offer accordingly. It will either be accepted or not.
Artex ceilings would never put me off a house if everything else was okay. It will not cause you any health problems as it stands, undisturbed, and can be dealt with at your leisure. However, as it sounds as though you are planning a major refurb anyway, you would lump the cost of dealing with this in with everything else.
Yes, I agree the vendor has gone about things in a strange way. If I had been him I would not have bothered with the apparent subterfuge and just waited to see if your offer was acceptable to me.
All our ceilings were artex, quite a few still are. I have no idea whether it has asbestos in it as we have never had it tested, but as we are not disturbing it, it really doesn't matter. If a purchaser came along making demands like yours I would tell them to jog on and move onto a more realistic buyer, or be prepared to adjust the price slightly..
No house is going to be perfect. All houses require ongoing maintenance, unless you buy brand new (and even these can be problematic).
I really don't understand this trend for buyers demanding sellers provide all these 'proofs' and checks and certificates that everything in the house is perfect, such as gas and electric fittings, boilers etc. It is up to the buyer to satisfy themselves about the condition of a property. Caveat emptor.

"Is it me? Am I expecting too much?"

Bluntly, in my opinion, yes.

Every house we have ever bought or sold has had this note on the survey. Every time, we or our buyers just noted it and continued on with the purchase.

You will be hard pushed to find a house from 2000ish or earlier that is guaranteed not to have artex in there somewhere. Even if the ceilings are flat now, they could be boarded or just skimmed over the artex. You will also be hard pushed to find another seller who jumps through these hoops for you. Personally I think take it on the chin as a normal risk inherent in most houses in this country, or find another house.

If 3 companies told you the vendor should pay, then I don't think you're unreasonable or expecting too much given they are the professionals and you have also offered to pay.

What I would be concerned with is the deception attempt from the vendor and his instruction to relist it. I guess it depends on how much you want this house to then pay for the tests yourselves, but personally if this is his behaviour now I doubt he will be entertaining any further drop in price based on the results you get. I would look elsewhere if it was me

Agree with NewName. Just go back to the vendor and say 'in the absence of a certificate from reputable accredited contractors, we will need to proceed assuming asbestos is present. Our revised offer is £XXX. Please

Posted too soon...

"....please let us know if our revised offer is accepted"

I can understand the sellers position.
The next buyer may well go for a home buyers report and valuation and therefore no issue to the seller. You have already indicated to them you are probably going to reduce your offer.