Opinions on the market - London & Essex

[Grace212]

Curious to know how MNers are finding things round these parts

looking to sell in outer North London and buy in Essex (small flat).

is it mad to try and do it this year? I'd be moving because of elderly mum.

a few people in my block haven't been able to sell - in part because they wouldn't reduce their prices more - and I must admit, I am not overwhelmed by the choices available in Essex, but frankly speaking, one small flat is much the same as another and the concern is proximity to mum. As long as I don't have to do any essential work to a new place, it would be fine.

so just wondered if anyone had thoughts. I'm thinking to be ready to market in September and have to buy and sell simultaneously.

It's like for like - so I don't think it's madness to do now. If prices up dropping 10%, it's likely to effect the two flats roughly the same.
We're zone 6 of Greater London, Essex borders, and prices here have still been slowly creeping up over the last two years.
It potentially may take longer to find buyers and therefore go through the process (especially if you end up in a chain).

oh I think the prices will come out the same as well

I was wondering more if it's bad idea because I keep hearing that people are waiting for Brexit, Godot etc etc and that might mean that the buyers are less serious and the choices are far fewer and so on. Some people seem to think there will be a hike in activity next year. Just curious to know what MNers think.

Sorry, I can't give you received wisdom on the London/Essex property market for flats, but I can give you our experience. Ignore Brexit, there are committed buyers out there who for various reasons need to move and get on with their lives. Competitive pricing is the key - if your flat is well presented and competitively priced then you should be ok. I would say 'go for it'!!!! We were competitively priced and a well presented house and sold in two weeks from going on the market. Found a house to purchase the day after we accepted our offer. I think people can be very committed, actually at the moment - otherwise you certainly wouldn't be doing it at present.

Daphne "I think people can be very committed, actually at the moment - otherwise you certainly wouldn't be doing it at present."

really interesting point, thank you.

I have been looking at what's STC and some of those look really good actually. I posted before about wanting a "let to buy" mortgage but that seems a no go - ideally I would have held on to the flat and rented it out - so that's delayed me a bit.

but tbh I can get cracking on it now rather than wait till September. I was just thinking that summer is normally slow, or am I horribly outdated on this?

I read another comment somewhere about the summer being slower, but I'm not sure whether that holds true in this market. There definitely is a shortage of decent property out there, so anything well presented and competitively priced seems to attract a lot of attention. Where we are the properties that have sold comply with this rule - anything tatty which looks like it needs money spending on it, or overpriced (then reduced) has been hanging around. So I would urge you to get yours on the market, especially as you want to be nearer your Mum - a brilliant motivation. I'm a retired mum and we've done our relocation to be near our daughter and son-in-law and their new baby - can't need much more motivation to move than that! Will be over near them by the end of July, it took five months in all which in the scheme of one's life isn't too bad. Good luck, Grace. I bet your Mum can't wait to have you nearer her. xx

"I bet your Mum can't wait to have you nearer her."

tbh since my dad died last year, I don't think she gives a shiny shite. in fact she would probably rather I didn't because she thinks I will regret it. however, I am really struggling with the journey to hers and I find the area I live in goes more downhill and stinks of weed of every day - a bit of a thing with outer London, I am finding.

so I'm motivated but I don't think it's going to make much difference to her! Sorry, that was a tangent.

I'm on the market in East London just inside the London /Essex borders and despite having been filled with confidence by all 3 estate agents we considered, we are finding very little interest at all. 5 viewings when it first went on last Saturday but none since. Buyer feedback doesn't seem to suggest we're over priced, but it's clear that buyers want perfection for their money - whatever that means to them-so it's hard to see what else we can do as the feedback is so variable.
If things don't pick up, we will wait out the remainder of this estate agents contract and come off the market till next year.

Sorry to hear that Grace - your mum should count herself lucky that she's got such a caring daughter. I'm glad to hear that you've got some other reasons for moving area in that case. Certainly as your area is going downhill, that's a clear motivation in itself. Get out before it deteriorates further and puts your investment in your property at risk.

I don’t think that summer is such a bad time to market a flat - everyone is RM - so scrolling away and alerts set up 24/7.

If others do hold back for the summer - I would imagine that they would hang back until after Brexit as well? But that would then it gives yours more prominence if you see what I mean.

If this also means that there is little on the market where you are going - maybe focus on selling up first and then going into short term rent for a while so that you are chain free and in the best position to purchase the new flat.

My observation is that many new build flats sold to BTL investors in the last 7 years are now coming back on the market second hand as all of the tax benefits have eroded any rental profit. Often they are overpriced and come with steep service charges.

Look at the recent sold prices on RM to get an accurate idea of values. Don’t be flattered by EA who value too high just to get your business and then suggest a price cut a month or so into marketing.

I have read the FTBs are on the move and the there was a piece in The FT yesterday that was suggesting that the central London market was bottoming out - no idea if this is true or even if any ripples out will impact you.

Good luck - move on with your life - this Brexit nonsense will go on for years.

Daphne - that probably came out badly sorry, not intended as a criticism of mum, just an observation.

but yes, the area is going downhill and a few neighbours have said we might have to wait till it is "sorted" but I think a lot of neighbourhoods are going this way and it's just really about whether people are okay with it and see other advantages. I have no interest in the schools, takeaways, and there's loads of routes to get into central London - I now don't go unless I absolutely have to.

Another - yes I think Brexit or not will drag on for ages. I am okay to be realistic about prices and tbh would go a bit lower because of being motivated to get out. I've also been here for yonks, so profit is fine in my view.

It sounds as though you've got a really good handle on it all, Grace. Definitely worth trying the market to see how you get on. Glad there's not a problem with your Mum!

I'm going to stop dithering and start doing the final bits of homework on this

but one thing that still bugs me is the finance of the situation. I posted about it so I hope no one minds if I link here, in case you have any ideas. Part of the thing is, I didn't want to take another contract job till after moving - because mum isn't well physically as well as mentally, I don't want a job that I have to do a massive commute for etc etc

so I posted this about "let to buy" which I am in a position to do, but doesn't appear to be considered okay. If anyone on this thread knows any more, or has any other ideas, please let me know

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/property/3611264-Let-to-buy-mortgage

Yeah, it's not the let to buy aspect that's the problem, it's that you don't have any other income. We've just put our smaller property on let to buy and taken a 'standard' mortgage to buy our next move, but we're both earning in salaried roles so they didn't have to look at the let to buy as an income stream. Also, the contracts have to be completed on the same day so you don't technically have any income from the flat on the day you complete because you haven't actually let it yet.

If you've got that money coming in on a monthly basis I imagine you could rent something on that income instead though. Why not do that, get a job or a contract and then once that's settled look for somewhere to buy? It will make the process a bit faster for you as well.

LB what I'm worried about with renting for myself is in case nothing suitable comes up to buy.

in terms of completing contracts on the same day, sorry to be thick - what does that mean exactly? You mean completing the contract on the let to buy mortgage?

It just seems mad to me that if I was over 55 I could do an equity release etc but there's no way to release money from my flat as it stands.

Buyer definitely want either a bargain if it's a modernisation project or a 100% perfect property

Don't way to pry here, Grace - but just a thought. Are you an only child? Does your Mum have mental capacity? If she does could she either give you some inheritance early, or if she has a property do equity release herself and pass the funds on to you?

Daphne no, I'm not an only child

I would never ask Mum for money. I'm in this very lucky position after dad died in any case. It would be greed in the extreme to ask for more!

we have no idea what mum might need in terms of care etc so that's definitely not a road to go down.

Completely understandable, Grace. My apologies, hope I haven't offended you. I'm sure there must be a way of achieving your goal and perhaps someone will be along on this thread with experience of the type of finance that might enable you to get your Essex property. I suppose you could always try a different broker and see what they come up with.

no offence at all

my dad would be the first to laugh at me saying - he has left us very lucky, but not that lucky

I've just had mum on the phone, she's been crying a lot since I spoke to her this morning. I think that while she might not find it much comfort to have me around now - she is too deep in grief still - it might be useful later. It's been 8 months, some say that can be a worse point.

going back to property prices - which dad and I would discuss endlessly - I have spoken to several brokers and they all said the same. Mum has a bunch of hospital investigations coming up, I will see what happens then and then maybe I will think about signing up for a job just to get the mortgage but then I think that sounds very complicated because at the moment, I can take mum to things, which is good.

if the investigations come back all clear, then it's worth revisiting how to handle things.

really I wish I had a crystal ball - if someone could tell me I could move as smoothly as I did in 2009 - which apparently was a terrible time to buy?! - then I would do it like a shot. But there wasn't a chain to worry about then. This place was let as a rental and I was renting.

I massively appreciate how over privileged we are and was reluctant to post on MN for that reason btw! I am between jobs at the moment so with hospital things, I will be mostly staying with mum next week. What I might do is think about the feasibility of living with her part time but then maybe renting a room elsewhere or even just finding cheap Travelodge type rooms when it gets too much.

It's not that I don't love her, it's that her overwhelming grief drowns me a bit - which in theory might improve over time!

Have you asked your current mortgage provider (if you have one) if they would let you rent out your current flat? A friend of mine did this although the mortgage company did stipulate a time limit (think it was 12 months) and then she would have to remortgage as a landlord.

So as you say, early days for your mum and her grief. It's good that you can be around for her and take her to all her hospital appointments - she must be apprehensive about that - so you taking her will be hugely reassuring to her I'm sure, Grace. It is a bit of a 'between time' for you - I had similar after a divorce when I stayed with my parents for a bit, before renting a property off one of my siblings. Then went on to buy a year later - so I can see where you're coming from here. Keeping your flat for now and seeing how it goes living with your mum, but having a plan to get a temporary bolthole when you need a bit of r and r sounds very sensible. Maybe now isn't the right time to make irrevocable decisions. If you do change your mind, you can put it on the market at a later date. Who knows the market may have picked up by then? Lots of decisions - you are doing the right thing taking your time. Also I bet you know pretty instinctively what your Dad would say if you were having a discussion with him!

zonkin it's a no from the (former) provider, for all the reasons explained on the linked thread.

Daphne tbh I'm inclined to crack on for a lot of reasons. I don't worry about regretting selling up here, there's not really anything to miss about the place. Neighbours are sweet but I got on with my neighbours in previous flats too so fingers crossed.

I spent most of my time with mum in the months after the death and it was horrendous - eventually I realised she was bringing me down and I was over the bereavement bit myself. So I would have to really really really think hard about the sense of staying with her even temporarily.

I suppose one thing is if mum turns out to have anything dire, it would not be sensible to start trying to move at that point.

okay this thread has been a very useful sounding board, thank you.

what I will do is deep clean the flat when not at mum's and get it photo ready at least! Thanks everyone.

Difficult and uncertain times for you Grace. I don’t think you have anything to lose by sticking it on the market now. Sounds like you don’t like the area anyway.

However maybe think about the 2nd step and take that slower. If you sold up and rented you would have loads of time to think how and where you could live. I see that you want to be close to your Mum - but how close - sounds like near enough - but far enough. You need your own life as well - even more so as an outlet if you are supporting a grieving mother and potentially a chronic illness. Don’t jump in too deep too soon.

If you didn’t have to consider your mothers care - where and how would you live ideally? Good to think about this and see if you can incorporate any elements to your move. Don’t want to move too many times as SD /legal / EA fees erode tens of thousands of your hard earned cash.

Another

I’d live very very far from London but that’s not an option. It’s okay, it was always the case I thought I’d move nearer to my folks to help out.

I don’t want to move several times either but I think at 43, a couple of moves is realistic! I agree about the cost of it. I’m really not keen on rented though. There’s not a huge amount to think about tbh. I know which boxes need to be ticked for practical reasons and that’s it.

So a move now, then I guess a move whenever mum goes, that could be me done. So not too much stamp duty for Boris Johnson’s government!!

PS in terms of how close to mum, twenty mins on the bus probably? Where she lives is quite nice and, mostly houses, so I need to head for the cheaper suburb just along which has more flats.