Wood burning stoves

[greatestshowpun]

We live in a big Edwardian end terrace and it is cold in winter. Our fireplaces have been bricked in - basically exposed but one has a defunct gas pipe - but they are very obvious and central to the room and we would like to put in wood burning stoves in 2 of the rooms.

I think it would be lovely for us while we live here but a couple of questions...how long do you think it takes to recoup the cost of installation/relining the chimney/the woodburner, etc.? and do you think having wood burners will sell a property or put people off?

We think we will probably be here for about 10 years so I don't want to put something in (like an Aga for example that some people frown upon but I love) that in 10 years time will mean we can't sell the house easily because they are now seen as 'expensive' or 'environmentally bad'.

Please for the sake of your own health, your families health, and your neighbours health and quality of life do not get any kind solid fuel burning stove.

This resource should be able to provide you with all the links you need to assess the effects on health and the environment.

theconversation.com/blame-wood-burning-stoves-for-winter-air-pollution-and-health-threats-110662

Even a state of the art Eco Design stove will still output the same PM2.5 as 18 diesel cars - (DEFRA's own figures).

Not only is their the air pollution element, there is the antisocial element. Since a couple of neighbouring installations it has had a demonstrable negative impact on our quality of life. My wife's asthma is worse, we can't hang our washing out. We also can't open our windows to air our house to get rid of internal particulate matter as we just let in PM from wood smoke and make the house stink of it as well.

And do not whatever you do listen to anyone who sells or installs them. They will point you to the fallacy that if you burn dry wood in an Eco stove it is a lot better. This has also been scientifically proven incorrect - whilst they do reduce visible smoke, they have been proven to increase the very smallest (and most harmful) PM - and it still stinks as well. Wood smoke has over 200 toxins and carcinogens in and the secondary combustions chambers in Eco Stoves do not eliminate any of them.

The SIA is a self regulating body (unregulated) and only has the income and profits of itself and it's members as a priority. As a result they can currently get away with their deceitful marketing based on the 'clean burning' myth. Apply some common sense to this - step outside smell the foul stench on a cold winters night and feel the smoke in your sinuses and back of your throat - these things are pollutions machines and no amount of marketing flim flam from the SIA and stove retailers/manufactures can alter the truth of this.

@longearedbat @Colt12

That's OK then, as long as you're OK! Don't worry that you are poisoning your neighbours and ruining their quality of life with your smoke. These particulates are so small that even if you stove was hermetically sealed other than the chimney they will re-enter your house anyway as they do your neighbours.

And what about the people who have to walk outside or work outside breathing in the smoke from your chimney? How totally inconsiderate you are.

How can you not understand that even though you may not have the smoke in your room - when the PM, toxins and carcinogens get out of your chimney they get straight back into the air that you (and more importantly you neighbours) are breathing. Do you not consider that your neighbours can't open windows, enjoy a walk, hang their washing out etc etc when you have you stove on? PM is so small it enters your house even if you have all your windows and doors shut.

@PleaseDoNotBurnWood you are totally entitled to your opinion, but you come across as a bit hysterical. There is a world of difference between my woodburner, which is only lit for a few hours in the evening on the coldest days of winter, and, say, the local oil delivery company which has a fleet of diesel burning trucks running all day every day monday to friday. I know which of the two is chucking out more crap.
I live in a rural area. There is no gas here. Nearly everyone has additional heating in the form of open fires or stoves. You are demonising the wrong target. The pollution caused by woodburners is a drop in the ocean compared to everything else that is chucked into the atmosphere.
Oh, and my neighbours have their woodburner running all the time in the winter. I have never even noticed any smoke. It certainly doesn't stop them (or me) doing any of the things you mention. I think you are writing from a townies perspective. Heck, if you wanted a cold day walk here you would be horrified - people with open fires, bonfires in gardens. You would never leave the house.

There are always hysterical folks who post on these threads. They fail to read the research properly and look at rhe impact of modern stoves on the environment, and compare it to other heat sources and other forms of pollution and contextualise it.

Instead they panic and claim to not be able to go outside and you need to just let them be.

It's worth checking your local council's regulations as well. I live in a smoke control area which means that only smokeless fuels are allowed unless the appliance is marked as 'exempt' (basically your wood burning stove has to meet certain requirements).

Even then I wouldn't have one unless I had no other heating options. They really don't do very good things for the air quality in your home and consequently aren't great for your respiratory health.

That said, a properly installed burner shouldn't smell. I grew up with open fires as our main heat source and my parents have a wood burning stove. If it's maintained properly and the correct wood is used, then you shouldn't smell anything outside.

The cost will differ greatly for the stove and there is not the difference you think there is between any well known expensive household named brands that grandma used to have and a modern one.
If you get one that has passed the 2022 ecodesign tests then it will be efficient and cleaner burning than older stoves.
As for them being a danger in your living room because of the gases, this is incorrect, the stove sucks in stale dirty air from the room and uses it for fuel to ignite, it then goes up the chimney. It's actually better for getting germs out of the air in a room.
I work for a stove manufacturer and there is a lot of scare mongering about the pollution.
Another way to think of wood burners is as a sustainable solution. Wood can be managed and replaced....gas, oil and coal cannot. Once its gone it's gone and you be charged a lot for it.
A twin wall system for a bungalow £600ish. A house £1000ish. A decent 5 to 8kw stove 700ish. A chimney liner kit for a house 370ish.
Installation ranges wildly, get recommendations.

@pleasedonotburnwood - Did you read the post correctly? Living rural can often mean there are no neighbours close-by. So, what would you do if you lived miles away from civilisation, had old style electrical wires running through fields where you live for miles, prone to frequent power cuts in the Winter, and hence unreliable electricity. - This means electrical heating will not work. What would you use if you had no local gas line because you live so rural? Your only affordable and reliable means would indeed be a wood burner. I think you need to look at the bigger picture, stop centring in your own little world and stop fuming about everyone poisoning their neighbours. That seems pretty hysterical. Live and let live. People make the best choices for themselves, to be warm in their own homes. They don't choose to freeze just to please the neighbours. - That's bonkers. The comments made previously on the forum were based on experience. You, on the other hand are so fuming, that your own attitude is toxic (pardon the puns) but really, there is nothing worse than a person not allowing the other to praise the benefits of a heating system that works for them, and in a constructive and helpful way, and recommends to the post originator in good faith. I dare say you are a steadfast electricity user. - If so, how would you like it if I said you were poisoning me, because the ugly electrical pylon sits in my field and is causing cancer to human beings? Get a life please, for your own sake.

So, what would you do if you lived miles away from civilisation, had old style electrical wires running through fields where you live for miles, prone to frequent power cuts in the Winter, and hence unreliable electricity.

insulate it to the max so that heating is only needed very rarely. the ££££ to install a woodburner would go a long way.

@orangeshoebox - even if you insulate 'to the max', it is not going to keep older houses warm, even more so if they are detatched, so have no benefit from a neighbouring property. If there are no cavities in the walls, for example, this really reduces what you can do. Add on local conservation area rules (in some areas) and you find you are severely limited (you can't start cladding exteriors as they would no longer fit in with the look of the area, as an example.) try living in an exposed rural spot in winter in an old house. It wouldn't be warm without heating whatever you did and however much insulation you put in the loft, which would be about the only place you could use it.
However, I would love to live in a house, of the type you sometimes see on Grand Designs, that has been conceived in such a way that minimal heating was needed. I don't know what insulation standard houses generally are being built to now, but I hope it's really high.

" if you insulate 'to the max', it is not going to keep older houses warm"

Sure it will, but not everybody would want to go to so much trouble.

Floors and roofs can be insulated so it doesn't show. Secondary glazing can be added leaving original windows intact. Rendered or clad walls can be insulated externally. Draughts can be blocked. Bays can be insulated. Chimneys can be controlled.

The internal surface of external walls can be lined, though this will lose 50mm or so off the width of the room.

Thank you everyone for your replies. It's been really helpful to learn about the new guidelines/regs and it's given us a lot to think about.

Interesting thread, thanks for starting it OP.
Our new house preciously had an old gas stove which has been removed by the plumber, now we have a gap and don't know what to do with it!

Was thinking about a stove but seriously reconsidering now. I let myself be talked into considering it by a few friends and a very persuasive salesman.

I do think that they will become more strictly regulated in the coming years (and rightly so). We have all the tools in front of us for clean energy.

If there was an equally romantic and nostalgic replacement for a stove I don't think anyone would burn solid fuel. Electric fires are a bit disappointing, but maybe I haven't seen the right one yet?

We'll probably get an electric one that looks like a wood burner, and fill up on insulation in the roof and cavity walls - overall the cost financially will be the same as installing a wood burning stove but with much lower environmental impact and reduced energy costs over the longer term. Plus none of the health risks.

Plus, our electricity tariff is 100% renewable.
Thanks again.