Help us decide what do - move or stay

[zizu73]

Hello.

Apologies in advance for the long post but I wanted to give you sufficient context. We would like to move house but finding it difficult and your advice would be much appreciated. This move should be our long term move (15+yr) so we are keen to get it right.

Our situation is as follows:

• Family of 4, both children in primary schools (Y1 & Y4)
• We are in our early/mid-40s.
• We currently live in a London suburbia
• Both working full time in senior managerial roles (private sector)
• Own our house outright (3 bed 1930s), worth £500k

Main reasons for wanting to move:

• No secondary schools in our area, i.e. would have to take the tube/bus. I know some parents are fine with it, we are not.

• Don't like the area anymore. It has changed since we moved in 10 years ago, and not for the better in our opinion. But it's safe with good primary schools and good transport links.

• House is too small. It's 2.5 rooms really and although there is room for an extension (rare & loft), which we have considered, we feel the above 2 points wouldn't make it worth all the hassle and money spent. Also, we were told that we might not get our money back as there is a price sealing in the area.

The main issue we are facing with the potential move:

• We have done an extensive research and after many hesitations of whether to move outside London or within, we now feel that we have narrowed it down to another area in London. The main reason is that with us both working full time, in very pressurised senior roles, it would be difficult to commute 1h+ with 2 young children. Given how unreliable the public transport is, the last thing we need is to stress about how to get home to pick up the kids. Also the cost of commuting is increasing each year.

• We feel the new area ticks most of our boxes, but the issue is that the house prices are much higher than in our current area, i.e. to get the house we want for the long term move, we are looking at £400k+ mortgage. This is pretty scary.

• In the current uncertainty with Brexit, this seems like a daunting undertaking. We could afford the mortgage if we stay on the same level of current salaries (at the top end of the mortgage, it would be ca 28% of our net monthly income) but the talk about No Deal Brexit might make employment situation more difficult. Our jobs are not directly linked to the EU but it might suffer depending on how bad it gets.

• I think that we got used to being mortgage free for few years now and mentally struggling to accept fully that we would need to get a large mortgage. Being mortgage free gave us the flexibility for one of us to stay at home with the kids/work p/t which was great.

• That said, we feel that given the issue with secondary schools, the increasing dislike of our area, the small house and the fact that given our age, this is probably the last chance to get another mortgage with 25 years term, we should go for it and take a calculated risk, especially considering that this would be a long term move.

• We have even considered moving outside the UK, selling/renting out our house, as we do not like the polarisation and increased intolerance following the Brexit referendum, but we don't have a natural destination to go to and our families are all here.

I appreciate that nobody has a crystal ball about the future and how Brexit will plans out but I would really appreciate your input. It might be a No Deal Brexit, or we might Remain, both of which will bring its own set of challenges. Or this uncertain situation might drag on for years. In all honesty, we are fed up of putting our lives on hold.

Many thanks for reading.

I don't think you can put your lives on hold realistically. If you wait even 5years your kids will be almost ready to go to uni potentially

I think you have to take a deep breath and get on with what you want to do. If your house is feeling small now that will only get worse presumably as your dc get older?

Problems of the well off. Some of us don't have the luxury of choosing where we live or if brexit will affect out house price . It must be good to have no real world problems.

How far is the secondary? Only a single bus journey away or like multiple changes and very long time? We are in London suburb and most of the kids going to secondary take public transport. It seems such a big thing when kids are in primary but looks so normal once they are in secondary. As long as it is not long journey and not changes then it would be alright. If it is longer, I doubt you will be in catchment anyway. So if secondary is good and only one bus journey away, it shouldn't be your main reason to move.

We have been in similar dillema whether to extend our place or move and we have decided to move though in same area. We are moving home for bigger garden and bigger house. It would mean we both have to continue to work and bigger mortgage but we felt at this stage of life(early 40s) and young kids, this is the only chance. Else it would be too late to ever move to bigger place.

Your first three reasons are good enough reasons to move. Do it now while they are still young

Have you considered that moving will mean your children will need a primary school place? You'll have no guarantee you'll get it at the nearest nice school as they might have none available and you might be asked to travel two miles to a very undesirable school.

If you move and take out a long mortgage, you need to think about what you're going to do if interest rates go up and you're spending, say, 40% of your income on payments. I image it'd be manageable but might not feel great when you're used to considerable disposable income and pressure on having full time jobs.

I'd also poo poo the idea that you won't get your money back if you convert the loft into a bedroom with en suite. If a 3 bed is worth 500k, a 4 bed + 2 bath house is bound to cost around 600k. And conversion costs will be only a little more than a stamp duty on a 900k house.

Having said that, it sounds like you really don't want to live where you are so moving might be a better idea. That make it financially more affordable, you could look for somewhere that still needs that loft conversion or ground floor extension. You'd have less mortgage and could add value to the property.

madroid Thanks. Yes you are right, the house will only get smaller with time and we don't want to keep postponing the decision.

hellooosweetheart I appreciate that this is a 1st world problem but nevertheless it's still an issue we are facing as a family which is important for us to resolve. I also know too well that we are in a lucky position and that many people are in much more difficult situation. I have been through a lot myself, believe it or not, so we are grateful for everything we have and we have worked very hard to get here.

mum2015 Thanks. It's a tube ride (1 stop) and then walk. As I wrote, I appreciate that many parents are ok sending their children by public transport but we would rather not do that. We feel the same as you, this might be our last chance to make a move to a more long term house but the idea of such a large mortgage is scary.

sugarbum Thanks. That's what we feel more and more. If it was just a small house, we would have done the extension. But the 3 issues combined makes us leaning towards moving.

JoJoSM2 Thanks. Yes we did some enquiries and they might have to continue in their existing Primary until they get a place in the new one. Not ideal but it's not too far and manageable for a shorter period. The good news is that there are several good primaries in the new area so hopefully a higher chance that they would get in.

Your point about the higher interest rate and the pressure to have full time jobs and maintain the level of salary needed is the scary part. You never know what can happen, being it redundancy, poor health, wellbeing etc. I have first hand experience how things can change from day to the next.

Yes, 4 bed with 2 bathrooms would cost around £600k. If the issue was just the small house, we would have done the extension. In any case, we see it as a home rather than investment. However, the combined issues are making us leaning towards a move, despite the very large mortgage.

It's a huge mortgage op (as you know) one stop on the tube is nothing once in secondary but I understand your concerns.
Is there a cheaper area / compromise?

How about "paying the mortgage" for 12 months by putting what you would be paying into a savings account out of reach and see how it feels? If after 12 months of saving it's not been so bad, you have a year of payments to add to the deposit and could take out a 24 year term.

Or by then Brexit might be slightly clearer (lol) which could help you decide either way!

What are you currently spending your income on (without a mortgage), given that a 400K + mortgage repayments would only be 28% of your salary?

I think that would be the biggest adjustment - the change in your lifestyle (assuming you are not currently saving that money)

Chilledout11 Thanks. I know it's not massive distance but don't want them to take the tube on their own, even if only for 1 stop. It's also the opposite direction to where we need to go for work. Also, we don't like the area anymore so that plays part too.

PlanBea Thanks. It's a good idea but we fear that (1) we might have difficulties to sell and buy next year if Brexit goes badly, and (2) we don't want to leave it until the last moment as next summer would be the absolute deadline to move.

origamiwarrior Thanks. We haven't had this level of income for very long as one of us was at home with the kids. Since we have had this level of income, we have bene mainly paying off CC debts. I know not great but didn't realise how much we had on CC until we added up all the cards. We also have now more childcare costs of course and just general cost doing up our house to make it ready for sale.

Yes, the change of lifestyle would be a big adjustment although as mentioned, we haven't been able to enjoy the extra disposable income because of the above mentioned expenses. That said, once we have paid on CC debts which will be in the next couple of months, our disposable income will increase quite significantly.

I guess that eventually it will all depend on how Brexit plans out and how this will impact on our jobs. I am thinking worst case scenario, we have to sell in few years time and will hopefully still have enough equity to downsize.

Are you sure you trust yourselves with a 400k mortgage given that you managed to get into a lot of CC debt despite owning your house outright?
Might it be wiser to start off in a smaller property in the new area or find a more affordable area?

I think you’re all confused because you’re not looking at the right questions.

You don’t WANT to live where you live (area gone downhill), and you CAN’T continue to live where you live (no secondary schools).

You’ve identified one area you want to move to, having discounted other for reasons you’re not prepared to budge on (don’t want children taking the tube).

So, you have no choice. Whatever Brexit might bring, whatever your work situation is, (and no odycan predict either of these things) you have to manage.

As such, I would spend as little as possible on your next house, if you can’t handle the insecurity. Do you really need 4 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms? Does it have to be a house and not a flat?

Stay. Save. Do the loft and an extension out the back.

Or find a compromise area where you don’t have to jump from £500k to £900k.

You don’t seem like you will be comfortable going from a zero to £400k mortgage considering you’ve only just got out of debt whilst having no mortgage. You’re not that young.

I know it's not massive distance but don't want them to take the tube on their own, even if only for 1 stop.

I mean, you know that’s not normal yeah?

You could pay for a taxi for them every day with the money you’ll not be paying on your mortgage!!!

Are you sure there are no areas which you could bear to commute from? That might be the compromise ie longer commute but an area you like more than the current one and not as expensive as the new area?

I understand your reservations about tube but your DC1 is only in year 4. He/she might be not ready for going by tube now but it will change considerably in a 1.5 years (unless there’s a specific issue, of course) .
About big mortgage. Does one of you work part time at the moment? If so, at the moment childcare is an issue but when both DC are at secondary you won’t need it. You might be ok with increasing your hours.

I live in a home county commuter town and my commute into central london is around 45-50 min (actually same as when i lived in zone 2). Depending on where you need to commute to you would get a 4 bed house for a lot less than 900k in areas outside of London (kent, herts, essex, bucks) or even zone 5, although would obviously need to factor in the cost of commuting.

You're mortgage free yet have CC debts? How are you going to manage a £400k mortgage?
Stop being so precious about a 12 yr old going on the Tube, certainly not a reason to saddle yourself with a big mortgage.

Come on and let me know- should i stay or should i go

I would be more willing to get teenagers used to traveling a short tube journey than taking on the risk of a huge mortgage that's potentially tying you to high pressured jobs, right up until retirement age.

I can understand the wish to move away from an area you don't like any more. By making that move, are you hoping for a larger house, as well? If so, how would the figures stack up if you focused on a house with more equal bedrooms, or, like the one you have, with the potential to extend, once your children are older?

I imagine that there's a reason for not wanting the tube like a disability or learning difficulties etc? Or it's about appropriate special schools etc? OP could you really not suck it up in, say, a 700k house/flat?