Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Property/DIY

Join our Property forum for renovation, DIY, and house selling advice.

Original poster

Extension Work Starts Monday Urgent Advice

35 replies

CharlyAngelic · 11/04/2019 21:47

In Scotland:
Partner has serious misgivings and wants to pull out : help !!

OP posts:
soakedat3 · 11/04/2019 22:26

Eeeek!!

There goes your sleep tonight!
Why has your partner had a change of heart? What are your options? Can you speak to the builder in the morning and see if you can all come to a compromise or delay?

Original poster
CharlyAngelic · 11/04/2019 22:41

Fear .
Cost .
Design.
Not sure what the options are .
Apart from going ahead with something he no longer wants .

OP posts:
Closetlibrarian · 11/04/2019 22:58

Is he prone to last minute wobbles/ second-guessing? Or do you agree with his concerns?

Broselug · 11/04/2019 23:05

What contract have you agreed? The contractor will have some costs to be covered if you pull out at this late stage. Sit down, discuss the concerns and if you still feel uncomfortable then explain to the contractor. Hopefully they are busy and can move on to another project without loss.

Original poster
CharlyAngelic · 11/04/2019 23:13

No , not prone to last minute wobbles closet.
No written contract as far as I am aware.

OP posts:
Original poster
CharlyAngelic · 11/04/2019 23:13

Thanks @Broselug

OP posts:
Broselug · 11/04/2019 23:28

Fear - of unknown? Or some risks?
Cost - has the contractor confirmed a fixed price - if not pin this down. Ask the contractor if there are any areas where costs are uncertain or at risk of increasing - understand what these risks are before you start.
Design - list all your concerns and discuss with designer ASAP.

Original poster
CharlyAngelic · 11/04/2019 23:30

Architect would not return call .

OP posts:
Original poster
CharlyAngelic · 11/04/2019 23:33

I have tried to reason with him . There is an item we could just not do .
We could use different flooring too .
He does not seem to want to listen.

OP posts:
soakedat3 · 12/04/2019 19:17

How did it go today Charly?

Original poster
CharlyAngelic · 12/04/2019 20:26

Stressful.
Architect has been in touch ( late tonight )
Husband is still stressed about it all.
Think going ahead anyway as at a point of no return.

OP posts:
Original poster
CharlyAngelic · 12/04/2019 20:26

Thanks for asking @soakedat3

OP posts:
MarieG10 · 12/04/2019 20:39

Charlyangel....why on earth haven't you got a written contract. You must be mad. How in earth do you think you are going to hold the builder to any standard or costs. Have you agreed a payment schedule with a holdback after issue of the building control certificate?

I think you should be pulling out, but more so until you have a full contract.

Some builders have a Federation of Mater Builders contract which is ok but as you would expect favours the contract. We drafted our own(or husband did) and it was 8 pages of A4 type!!

Original poster
CharlyAngelic · 12/04/2019 20:51

I think there is some sort of agreement and payment schedule but we have not signed anything.

OP posts:
LazyFace · 12/04/2019 20:52

Please don't let anyone touch your house without a contract. We had a jct and still been screwed over.

Original poster
CharlyAngelic · 12/04/2019 20:53

What is a jct?

OP posts:
Original poster
CharlyAngelic · 12/04/2019 21:00

The architect firm is supposed to be “ project managing” and checks and fees percentages arranged by them,

OP posts:
Broselug · 12/04/2019 21:45

Charly, get info from your architect on the contract they are using. They may very well have this in place but should really have explained this all to you to make you comfortable with a new experience.
JCT is the joint contract tribunal (a body who produce construction contracts in England) their Scottish equivalent is SBCC Scottish building contracts Committee. The contracts which apply to small projects would either be the Minor Works Contract (which really needs a construction professional to administer it) or the homeowner contract which is very simple and could be dealt with by the client.
Ask the architect for a copy of the contract, get him /her to explain the salient points (time, cost, insurance, damages for delays, timing of payments, cash flow forecast, security and protection of site during works, frequency of site visits, etc). The contract is the legal agreement, it should be linked to a scope of works to be provided which details the extent and quality of works. This could be a drawing and spec alone or combined with a description of works or bill of quantities.
Ask the architect for clarification on these points, they are acting for you and should be providing all this info.
Good luck Smile

Original poster
CharlyAngelic · 12/04/2019 22:24

Thanks very much @Broselug .

OP posts:
MarieG10 · 12/04/2019 22:40

If you haven't seen the contract then you haven't got one...it is you that needs to sign it and you should have gone through it with a fine tooth comb!!

What you need to be wary of is that a lot of builders are very connected to the architects and it can be questionable how independent they are,

You need to get a grip on them. Demand to see the contract so you can review it before you are presented with it to sigh. Make changes to it if you want but it should list everything being done and the specification. My builder swallowed hard when he saw the contract we had drawn up but it was too good a job to turn down and he went for it. We had virtually no hassle as everyone knew where they stood including the penalties!!

Original poster
CharlyAngelic · 12/04/2019 22:45

Ok . Good to know @MarieG10 . That will probably be why they ignored any of our suggestions.

OP posts:
soakedat3 · 13/04/2019 16:27

@CharlyAngelic, the architect should've tried to make you both comfortable with the build in general in my opinion. Especially as it sounds like they are charging you to PM manage the whole thing.

We spoke to one ARB architect and it was eye watering what he was asking for. But we were still tempted as he made it sound like they were going to take all the stress out of it. They would speak to builders and put forward vetted quotes. They would check and sign off each stage. They would perform spot checks on the builders too. I think if we had the money we might have gone that route! The bit I didn't like as much was that if we didn't choose to let them PM the project then they wouldn't release the detailed drawings to us that they would send to to builders for bids. We would "only" get the plans to get through planning. I am not sure what extra info the detailed drawings would have had as we've submitted to planning and the builders who looked at the drawings didn't demand any further info. Our extension is 7 x 3.8.

As it is, we've had quotes and are currently in the process of accepting one. We haven't heard anything about a contract but that might be coming along. The builder is part of the Federation of Master Builders.

However, as the works have started it might be a bit late to change the contract (if there was a written one). Maybe the best bet is to speak to the architect and builder together with OH and see if any changes can be made so OH is happier? Does OH want a contract?

I'm presuming that you are mostly happy with the extension?

Extensions are stressful enough but can't imagine how hard it is when one half does a U turn the night before! Hope it's maybe moving along and OH is coming around again.

Original poster
CharlyAngelic · 13/04/2019 16:55

@soakedcat3 , husband is going to meet with the builder and architect next week hopefully.
The builder will just be “setting up “ next week. Apparently another job to be finished.

OP posts:
soakedat3 · 13/04/2019 19:18

That's a little breathing room at least. Fingers crossed something is resolved.

MarieG10 · 14/04/2019 06:44

From experiences of friends, builders love working without a full contract as it means you can legally hold them to very little. Basically, they work to the plans and nothing more. It means they can put one socket in a room and say "that's what was quoted" and you have no argument to the opposite.

We had three builders refuse to quote as our tender was "too detailed". Said it all really.

Our contract specified:

Responsibilities of the builder - for eg legal responsibility to get rid of waste in compliance with the law
Anticipated timelines
Payment schedule and grounds to withhold at the discretion of the client
Cancellation options. Ie the builder isn't turning up and project is falling behind....this one really upset him as he said he might have other jobs on......this meant he was on site virtually every day weather permitting
Referenced the latest approved plans and building control plans
All detail not included in the plans, for eg the exact type of ceiling windows, ie Velux and model number and not some cheap alternative
Window design, make and model
Door design, make and model including colour
All electrics, including cables for cable TV, Internet IP6
Plumbing...including make, model and importantly boiler capacity, type of piping, for example copper 15mm or small bore

This is still a small part of the overall list which should match the tender the builder worked to.

You cannot start a major project such as this without the level of detail given the cost, Also the Architect won't help if this spec isn't in place as the builder will be complying with the requirements which are very few!

Sadly, you can see I have learnt a lot about detail but what I can say is the building work was fabulous and done to a high standard. The builder admitted initially he didn't like the contract provisions but that what was useful was that it was so specific there was little area of doubt with anything and he knew to discuss any changes with us and get authorisation....in writing or email

Good luck but it feels like you have a lot of work to do before letting him start....don't let him push you