Help - may need to rebuild lounge wall to support loft conversion!

[Housebaby]

We're planning a loft conversion on our 1930s semi. Many neighbouring properties have done this in recent years. Plans have been drawn and submitted at a cost of 3k!

When we bought the house, the front and rear receptions had been knocked through to create a through lounge which was very popular in the 70s when we believe it was done. A steel beam was put in to support where the wall once was (we know this from the survey).

A few years ago, we put the wall back to make 2 rooms again. Instead of using solid brick (which we believe the original wall was) we used lightweight blocks. Builder actually suggested plasterboard but we wanted something more solid. DH happened to mention this in passing to the guy from the company we've booked to do the conversion and he suggested we run it past the architect (who would've assumed the wall was original) to check adequate support for the loft. Architect told us to uncover a section of the beam and measure it. When we gave him the measurements he said it was nowhere big enough

He's gone away to come up with possible solutions but said the likely outcome is that we will have to tear down the wall and rebuild in solid brick and possibly insert a new steel. We're absolutely gutted - as well as the extra mess & expense, we only finished refurbing downstairs a couple of years ago! If it weren't for the fact we had already spent money, we'd likely abandon the whole project!

Has anyone had this issue? I've googled and can't find anything which surprises me as I would've thought it was a pretty common scenario in houses of this type.

Tia

I think your options will be limited , you could go to a structure engineer. But sounds like you will have to have the wall rebuilt.

I would've thought an extra steel could go under the loft floor to provide extra support (we're already having one as we're setting the loft room back from the rear wall of the house) but he said something about it affecting the ceilings of the bedrooms below?! I did read that loft conversions don't usually add significant weight to the house which would make sense given the amount of crap many people (us included) store in unconverted lofts!

Again, I can't believe this a unique problem as I'm sure many houses with 1970s through lounges have since had loft conversions! We're told the beam is a universal size so done correctly for the time and is fine to support the house as it stands (without a loft conversion).

Confused!

We have very similar house same knocked through rooms downstairs. All the steel beams were placed in the loft conversion itself to provide the support. That was 5 years ago no problems at all and all done to building regs.

The steel beams run under the floors of the 2 rooms up in the loft conversion. We had a massive dormer built up there as well. They never said anything about the downstairs. We have the 2 rooms knocked through as well and there is a steel beam for support but no wall there.

This was what I thought @oldgrinch. It's all very strange that neither architect or loft company (who do aporox lofts per year) seem familar with the problem! Wish DH had never brought it up!

Presume the removed wall was load bearing @oldgrinch? They usually are in traditional semis but, as you say, it sounds like they didn't even check and provided the support in the loft instead. You would've had to uncover the beam to check it's size. We now have a lovely hole in our lounge ceiling!

Hi yes the removed wall downstairs had been a load bearing one but it had been removed years before by previous owners. Building control didn't seem in the least bit interested in it. Everything else seems to still be standing

Just to clarify they never checked the size of steel beam downstairs just provided plenty of support in loft itself

Hmmm. Beginning to not trust this architect (loft guy seemed to think it wasn't an issue and he does 50 lofts a year so can't believe he hasn't come across this before!). He also told us that we have to lose far more of the box room than we actually do!

DS had the same issue. Hallway wall had been removed to make open plan. When they did the loft conversion they had to reinstate the wall.

Sorry if I missed this, but did a structural engineer do calcs on your architect's plans?

We're in a 1930s semi and we did a loft conversion with steels supporting the roof. We're knocked through between the living room and the dining room. The structural engineer checked that the opening between the two spaces could support the conversion as the dividing wall was missing. As there is a steel across the opening, it was fine.

Sorry, meant to say ... If you haven't already, perhaps get an SA to check over the plans for peace of mind??

@llangennith I wonder if maybe a steel hadn't been put in when the wall was removed so it was easier just to rebuild the wall? Did he uncover and measure your steel. We have a steel which the loft guy described as pretty big yet the architect is saying too small

@SallyOMalley it's the architect saying this. It's not a definite no but he said he has to go away and do some calcs & give it some thought . We have a steel which the loft guy described as pretty big yet the architect is saying too small We also built the wall back up using lightweight blocks but architect says must be solid brick.

Just found this article which backs up what @oldgrinch said as well as my own thoughts.

www.loft-conversion-uk.com/loadbearingwall.html

Did he uncover and measure your steel. We have a steel which the loft guy described as pretty big yet the architect is saying too small hmm sorry that was aimed at @sallyomalley

There was an RSJ there but apparently not strong enough so they had to rebuild the supporting wall. DS not sure if they replaced the RSJ.

I think you need to speak to a structural engineer. We had our attic converted a few years after a ground floor extension, which involved a load-bearing wall on the ground floor being removed. Our builder knew about this and got the structural engineer to look at the calculations from the extension before he'd even contemplate the attic. Sorry, it's not want you want to hear but you want it to be structurally sound.

Ahh, some conflicting experiences here! Am assuming you're all in the UK?

I am . Good luck with deciding what to do!

Find a structural engineer to look at it - they can give you options to move forwards. Yes, I'm in the UK (and a structural engineer, but I don't do domestic work currently)

Yes you need a structural engineer to do the load calculations.
What often happened was the beam put in the knocked down wall was calculated to take the load of a 2 storey house. With new building regulations that beam will need to be stronger to take the load of a three storey house.
FYI there is normally an option to bolt another beam alongside the existing one to increase the strength of the existing beam. May be an option considering for the least disruption as you wouldn’t need to take your wall down

Loft company are asking structural engineer they use for their opinion so will see what they say!

Thank you for your replies. We REALLY don't want to rebuild the wall!

Loft company have come back to say they've only relied on support from this wall in 1 in 100 conversions (usually steel in loft) and are questioning experience of architect when it comes to loft conversions. Confused!

When we removed an internal wall and replaced with a steel, the building control inspector mentioned at the time that by going for that size beam there'd be no issues if we were to later convert the loft. We had no plans at all to convert but it would seem like it's enough of a consideration to mention.

Supporting higher up is not always straightforward if there's not enough depth for the steels without raising the floor or dropping the ceilings in the room below.

Based on experiences of friends and acquaintances who've had dealings with companies specialising in loft conversions I'm not sure I'd necessarily trust them over your architect.

In one case it was basically the architect saying you need to do this because it was the only way they'd get the useable space they wanted versus the loft company saying it wasn't necessary but neglecting to mention that not doing it compromised a lot of the design.

@soulrider we already know there's plenty of depth for the steels (loft is bigger than average with plenty of head height). In fact, just spoke to friends who live in identical house in next street and who recommended this company to us. They confirmed that their loft is supported by steels, downstairs walls weren't a consideration (although their lounge has never been knocked through as far as they know!). No damage to bedroom ceilings below. They used loft company's architect which we would have done had we not had plans done before getting them round.

Neighbour used same architect as us and used centre wall as support but again had original wall so no issue. They did say though that architect insisted they would lose half their box room so they spent a weekend dismantling built in wardrobe only for the builder to manage to get the stairs in without touching the room. They weren't impressed!

Lastly, we nearly ended up with a much smaller ensuite due to architect not maximising the volume - loft company pointed out the error, architect conceded and got it changed!

I do take the point though that some loft companies may not be reliable when it comes to these issues. However, this company do come highly recommended with dozens of reviews as well as personal recommendation.

The architects have a good reputation locally going back many years but do seem old school, I'm inclined to agree with loft company and now wonder how up to date they are when it comes to lofts!

As you'll be applying for planning permission and building regs approval they'll tell you what you need to do.