Can they really put scaffolding on my property?

[2Cats1Dog]

One of the flats above us (leaseholders like us) have got permission from the freeholder to convert their loft and to do this they need to put scaffolding on our property, which would mean months and months of misery for us. Surely, they can't be allowed to do this??? I mean, it's not like it's necessary maintenance work, it's purely to improve their flat, it's not essential work! Has anyone else been in this situation? Help please!

You usually need planning permission for anything which changes the roofline of a building. We didn't need it for our loft conversion which just has Velux windows. Next door did need it for their conversion with a dormer window. Both projects took about 8 weeks.

OP could go online and look at the local planning applications and see exactly what has been proposed and agreed. I am really struggling to see what could POSSIBLY take 9 months, unless they are entirely removing the top floor and replacing it with a six storey, glass extension. Unlikely.

@PosterPostingPosterishly. I have no idea what you’re agenda is or why you have take it upon yourself to insult me and be so very unpleasant. Whatever the reason for your evident anger, please take it away and work it off elsewhere.

Thank you, will have a look. Much appreciated

@BobThe Duvet. Thank you for the link. I’ll have a look in the morning.

Feel for you OP. We came home one day to find scaffolding completely covering the outside wall of our apartments (the side with windows). They had blocked off all of the garages so we were lucky we had the car out at the time. There was absolutely no warning and some of our neighbors had a really tough time with vehicles etc stuck inside. We were told 4-6 weeks. We moved out 18months later and there was still scaffolding up blocking light etc, although garages were accessible again 5 months later.

1 really sympathise as of course you don’t want this and it will be disruptive.
2 8-9 months is not a lift conversion. My neighbours (top floor of four story 1700 house in conservation area) did an internal reconfiguration and raised the roofline to create a new floor and two windows etc.
Needed planning permission. That work scaffolding was up 3 months.
Another saying you and you fellow neighbours should look online at your local authority planning site - do a search and see what comes up. If they have planning the planning officer will be named with phone number If nothing appears on planning phone planning to ask what is going on.
3 they will need to ensure windows and doors are unimpressed and if you are a wheelchair user you obviously can insist they erect around doors etc so as not to obstruct your access in any way.
Good luck op. Although a nasty shock now it will be over and I think a lot quicker than 8-9 months.

In impeded not ‘unimpressed’

@7salmonswimming. OK thank. I will look a the lease properly. But it’s quite complex and I’m not trained legally. But yes I will have to do that. I had just been hoping to hear other people’s experiences and to see if they had been through something similar. Thanks again for your advice

@Rhica. OK, many thanks for the suggestion xx

@chazm84 no way?! That is shocking. How can they be allowed to do that???

@HeronLanyon thank you very much for your advice and support. I appreciate it and hope you’re right about it being a lot shorter xx

chazm I am a lawyer and al tenants would have had cast iron case IF there had been no notice of works and warning re cars - totally unlawful! Having said that it’s not always easy to access advice or be able to take landlords to court if you’re in precarious situation with them. Any CAB would have advised you. Onlyposting so others don’t even start to think that is ‘permitted’.

@HeronLanyon I didn’t think of CAB, will try them on Momday. Thank you

I understand OP. We had this when we lived in a flat. Couldn't open the windows because of the scaffolding - in London in the summer - and had the builders outside the windows constantly.

Advice about cab was re other poster whose neighbours’ cats had been blocked in.
Your first steps are with local authority and planning. Has any neighbour talked to the occupants/owner/tenants/landlord of the flat to really find out what is going on ?

Cars not cats!

I understand why you are upset about it OP and unfortunately it's just one of those things you can't always avoid when living in built-up areas with close proximity to neighbours. My next door neighbour in a terraced house had an extension built two years ago at the back and it was extremely disruptive - very noisy, with my garden not really usable all summer with the dust coming across from next door, and I had a skip and a portaloo out on the street right in front of my house for months on end! I too felt it was a lot of disruption for no gain whatsoever for me. But at the same time I understand my neighbour's perspective, she had the right to improve her house.

Hopefully the major disruptive work will take a lot less than 8-9 months though and you won't have to put up with it that long.

We had something similar happen, so I understand your concern. In our case the original plan was to actually build o top of our freehold house. The plans were ridiculous, but still had to be looked at & approved or disapproved by the town planners. The Council could have passed it, even though they legally had no rights to build on top of part of our roof. It's a crazy system.

What we learnt by going through it & talking to surveyors & solicitors etc, was that property developers always start off by putting in ridiculous plans, knowing they will get rejected & softer plans will then be accepted. It s sort of a game of the trade.

You need to find out if plans have been submitted to the councils town planning department. You can ring them up with the address, but given your close proximity to the build, you should get an official notification & invasion to place your objections to the build.

The time does sound excessive. They did far more to the building next door to us & it was over in 2,1/2 months. 8/9 months makes the cynic in me question what they are really up to. Who owns the top flat?? Is it the freeholder ? Are they planning to build more flats on top, rather than just an extension?. You need to see the plans which will be online to view at the councils town planning website. Would making your low rise block affect your property value, more noise from more people trapping up & down the block etc.

Party wall law dictates that the property developer pays for legal advice for both of you & an agreements drawn up. You can insist on reasonable changes etc to protect your rights, including writing in a clause that means you get compensation if they go over the promised time scale. This makes them work to time. Also times of works etc. There will be local laws on this, but check if they are compatible with the hours you get up etc. if you normally get up at 8 am for example & the law says they can start work at 8, you might want to ask them to start at 7.30, which would be reasonable as it's only slightly different. You can ask fir extra expenses to be covered such as calming plug ins for your dog & also that they keep a way clear for your dog to safely use your garden.

Your disability gives you extra protection, any neighbours with kids can also cite 'protection of children from harm" in their objections to the planning application. But excessive noise, blocking out light, effect in your home life, parking & rubbish disposal in the area, if you will be overlooked by the new floor or extension are all things you can object to.

If it gets messy, as our situation did, you can contact your local councillors for help. Ours was a big help & it worked out well in the end.

For now though it sounds like your freeholder is sounding you out before putting in any plans

Yes, in short, they are entitled. That’s what the party wall act is about. It gives them a right to access your property.

Firstly though, no, not 8/9 months unless it’s one man baking bricks from clay. Secondly, scaffolding only required until the shell is done (first 2-3 weeks) as the rest of the fitout is internal works and external access is not required.

@HeronLanyon We were collating all required info and had been in touch with CAB and other various portals regarding tenants rights. Things moved verrry slowly. Landlord would say oh yes sorry it'll gone by xx date then would go off radar. He was a higher up developer with many contacts which made it more difficult. We even installed cameras in our apartment as his workers were accessing our property without any notification or consent. We had much happening over that period of time including arranging our wedding, new jobs and a pregnancy. We weighed it up and decided we were better off out of the situation. Also where we are/were any tribunal proceedings will be logged against your name as tenants and will show up in future searches when applying for new property regardless of who was in the wrong. We had the means to move to a better property with amazing landlords and leave a toxic situation so we did

chazm84 what an absolute nightmare. Good you’re away from it now. Unbelievable when landlords mistreat tenants like that and all too common.

I’d have thought it highly unlikely you own the freehold of the garden, it’s most probably just part of the leasehold of your flat. The lease will almost certainly say that you have to allow access to your property for specific reasons (usually for things like maintenance of gas/electricity/water pipes etc) so check what it says. Your lease may also indicate if your consent is needed for structural work to the building. If the planning application hasn’t been completed yet then you can object, but if it’s been granted then you may be stuck. Check the terms of any planning consents to see if there are any obligations about hours of work etc that might alleviate some of your concerns.

Ultimately I really struggle to believe that the scaffolding will be up for 8-9 months, even if the work will take that long (which I also doubt). My loft conversion took 5 weeks and the scaffolding was up for two of them. Scaffolding is expensive, whoever is paying for the work will want it down as quickly as possible.

I think people are giving OP a hard time over the 9month time scale.

For what it's worth, I live opposite a builder. He is a roofer by trade but does lots of other things too. Every year at least 3 people on our road let him do their roof (very long road, lots of old houses with old roofs). A roof should not take that long to complete but EVERY time he takes months. Or, the scaffolding is up for months.

He did a tiny job on my mums roof (took a day) and left the scaffolding up for 6weeks!!!!!

What clearly happens is he likes to have his fingers in many many pies and takes on as much as he can. This means he will not work on the same job each day but just do a little at a time and this results in delays and the scaffolding staying up much much longer than need be.

The quality of the work is fine and he is trustworthy. But the way he runs his business means you have to put up with scaffolding being on your property for way longer. I believe he just moves the scaffolding to the next job rather than return it and get it out again.

That is how a loft conversion could take months...I reckon he would take months to complete that.

Puts me off ever employing him for a big job!

AIBU?

Yes

No I'm not.

What was the point?

You are also being unreasonable keeping a dog you can't walk.

Op, I would suggest finding out what work is being done as a first step, I strongly suspect you have misunderstood.

Scaffolding only is up for the duration someone is working on the external of the building. It's highly unlikely it is planned to be up for eight or nine months. And absoltely not for a loft conversion.this would be for days rather than months.

I'm not sure if you panicked and guessed at eight to nine months, or if someone really did tell you that, I suspect the former, I'm sorry.

Why not find out exactly what the work is, how long the scaffolding will be up for, then read your lease. It is likely you will need to permit access, but as said, I sincerely doubt this is anywhere near the scale you're imagining.