Sockets on wrong circuit

[NewHouseOldProblems]

In short the downstairs electrical sockets are on the lighting circuit not the ring main. I've tested this removing fuses and switching things on etc.

We only bought the house recently and had an electrical survey done. Should this have come up on it? We offered based on the electrics being safe and fit for purpose.

I want to put in some large appliances (freezer, washing machine). Does the house absolutely need rewiring? Can I upgrade the existing circuit? Or run a new circuit for the utility area?

Are they with the lights on the ring or is it possible it has the wrong thing wrote on the board?

Oh and what amperage is the fuse they are on?

With the lights.

I think only the kitchen is on the ring main but it's tiny and not feasible to run an extension cord from it due to the layout.

5amp for the lights, 30 for the ring main

"5" and "30" suggest an unusually old installation. Post some photos please. Including the consumer unit (showing labels, and lid open) and the cables and other things around it and the meter. Include a 20p coin or ruler to show scale.

How old is the house, and how old do you think the electrical installation is?

From what you have said so far, I think you should start planning for some rewiring.

Poor camera, sorry, hope you can see what your after.

House is old (1800s) electrics probably never been changed but some work is more recent than other bits.

I know it needs a new consumer unit. The survey basically said it's all fine but new consumer unit and new light fittings in kitchen would bring it up to regs. We only got the survey to see if it needed rewiring, because I thought it might and we can't afford that right now. Had the survey said it needed doing we would have offered less. Hence I wonder if the surveyor was at fault in some way - I assumed he would test these things.

Unsurprisingly, your installation is old and needs rewiring. There may be parts that can be salvaged, but it will be simpler to renew the lot.

You have a Wylex Standard CU with rewirable fuses (or possiby an own-brand copy such as Newlec). It dates from about the 1970's and is not up to current standards. We can assume that the cables will be of similar age and, although not degraded, they are likely to have missing sleeving and grommets, possibly no earth connections in lighting fittings, and far too few socket outlets. It's a 6-way so it probably started out with circuits for upstairs lights, downstairs lights, upstairs sockets, downstairs sockets, immersion heater and cooker. The cooker fuse would originally have been 30A and in your case has been replaced with a B40 which is not correct on that model. I hope this is not being used for an electric shower because the CU is unsuitable. The label under the main switch may explain.

The tails have been renewed, I can't see the main bonds but very likely they need renewing. An external RCD has been added, in such a way that if (say) the kettle trips it, all the other circuits including lights will go out. This is not now considered good practice, and is dangerous to anyone up steps or carrying a hot pan. There are probably other defects common on an old installation, such as DIY spurs, outdoor lights, and extensions.

An Electrical Installation Condition Report by a qualified electrician might take half a day or so and cost a few hundred pounds, but I think that an experienced person would be able to size it up sufficiently within a couple of minutes and save you the money.

If you electrician agrees, it is sometimes possible to add a new, large size of modern CU and to connect new circuits to it individually as they are installed. For example you might start with kitchen sockets, cooker and downstairs sockets.

I don't recommend installing a new CU and trying to transfer your old circuits into it. They would have to be tested to modern standards before it was permitted to go live, and some or all of them might fail test unless they were expensively rectified. Meaning you would not have working circuits until it was all completed.

PigletJohn if say, there was an electric shower running off of this, why would that be unsuitable?

We don't have a cooker or use the immersion heater though that is what the 40 and 15 are apparently for. I assume that doesn't make things better.

Label says total load not to exceed 60 amps (yes, I can do the maths there).

Tails? Bonds? RCD? I think I understand the rest of your post.

If we got it rewired would it need to be basically done in one go or could we leave upstairs till next year for example? And would an electrician sort out the replastering that would inevitably need doing?

If I sent the Electrical Installation Condition Report (that we paid hundreds of pounds for) would you mind telling me if it's contradicted by anything we've discussed? E.g. Wiring systems appropriate for the type and nature of installation is checked, and I don't think that's true.

Are you living in the property? If your sockets are wired to a 5A fuse its going to be blowing after a few things are plugged in. I wouldn't wait to rewire tbh.

An electric shower usually takes its full rated power, continuously, for as long as it is in use. This is different from, say, a cooker where the rings and oven are seldom all turned on full at the same time, and when they are, the individual thermostat on each turns it off when it reaches target temperature, then on again when that ring (or oven) has had time to cool a bit.

The connections in that type of CU are designed for a max load per circuit of 30A. A few were made with extra-heavy duty connections for a bigger load, there was only one per CU, and it was a different size and shape to prevent the designed fuseholder being fitted into any of the other ways. There may also have been a 100A main switch, I can't remember now. A heavy load into one of your fuseways is liable to lead to overheating, and possibly burning away or melting together of the brass and copper parts. This is still occasionally seen when old CUs like yours are opened up. Yours might be all-plastic, or it may be one of the earlier models with a wooden back frame. Current CUs are steel-cased as they are required to be non-flammable.

You could leave upstairs until later if you want.

The RCD is that small unit about two inches wide and five inches high, with a "Test" button. It is intended to cut power in the event of certain kinds of electrical fault and reduce the risk of shock.

Electricians are usually better electricians than they are plasterers.

It would be interesting to see your report.

Yes we're living there. Only trip we've had so far is when the washing machine broke, but to be fair we don't have many appliances.
Would have sorted wiring before moving had we known as it would have been cheaper and easier.

Can I attach documents here or to a pm? I'll try screenshots but it'll be several posts.

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