Architect's fees query - is this normal?

[Coroico97]

We are planning a renovation and are about to engage an architect. The house is very old in parts (17th Century) and it needs a lot of TLC. We are also knocking a more modern part down and rebuilding - which will include a new kitchen. It will need a lot of creative thought as needs to blend with old part of house and is in a conservation area and locally listed. It's going to be tricky to get through planning but our architect is experienced in this type of work on this type of building in this area which is great, but his fees are high. My main question is that he is wanting to charge an extra fee on the cost of things like our potential new kitchen and bathrooms. Presumably for consultation purposes. As we would be employing a kitchen designer as well, do you think we should push back on this fee? Is it normal to charge a fee on what he calls 'supplementary works including kitchens, bathrooms, alarm systems'. I would be very grateful for any advice!

This is how our architect worked. A fee for the house design, drawings for planning, building control etc. Then as a completely separate piece of work, we later paid him for interior elevations, which included electrical spec, kitchen, bathrooms etc. Our was a big project but I am v glad we didn't skimp on architect fees, it has made the whole thing much easier as the builder has such detailed drawings. Architect made us think really hard about furniture, how we'd use each room, what lighting would be best etc, at an early point when we still had brain capacity - doing it now during the build itself, I would be much less confident about my own decisions!

Push back on it if you genuinely think you won't use the architect for the interior design. However I think that might be a little unwise/unrealistic.

Part of the luxury of having an architect design elements of your home is surely that it can be tailored to your preferences. The layout, style and size of the kitchen you would like are surely best known to the architect so that house design can be planned accordingly.

What I'm trying to say is - is it really going to be practical to wholly divorce the exterior and interior design of your house? Surely the two go hand in hand.

Thanks so much for this advice. I am clearly very inexperienced in these matters! Totally agree that we will welcome his help with this. I guess I just assumed this would be included in his main fee, rather than added on. Also thought much of this work would be undertaken by kitchen designer. Happy to be advised otherwise! Also I think I may have (wrongly) assumed that extra fee was for time spent liaising with the kitchen company whereas you both point out it is for time spent with us, the client, primarily! Thanks again for invaluable insight!

Another one here... also paid our architect fees to cover his interiors input as everything was easier to align re lighting/layouts etc... it was never discussed as a separate fee per se though... just agreed that we could always discuss/consult on all aspects of seemingly small/ancillary things such as door furniture/various trims inside and out... hth

Thanks mother87. It seems he wants 50% of his rate applied to cost of our kitchen, or bathroom etc. So if we get an expensive kitchen and have a good kitchen designer he’ll be happy!

That does seem an odd pricing structure. Ours was a flat fee.

I wasn't anticipating that you would have to pay both the architect and a kitchen designer for the kitchen design work. I thought it was a one or the other scenario and suggesting that imho it might make more sense to opt for the architect in that case.

Is there a reason you need a kitchen designer? Is it because the company you are planning on getting the kitchen from requires it?

Is he actually qualified as an Architect? If he is, he'll be registered with either the Architects Registration Council UK (ARCUK) or Royal Institute of British Architects (RIBA).

If so, contact the Royal Institute of British Architects, and ask them about standard fee scales for different types of work. They should be able to tell you if the fees are reasonable or not. Qualified Architects, generally work to recommended fee scales, usually a %.

If he isn't, run a mile! This is surprisingly common. If he's lied about being an Architect, what else is he lying to you about?

Good Luck.

It will be a bespoke kitchen from a kitchen company who will design layout, build and fit kitchen, order appliances, etc. They do the whole shebang. They tell me they usually work with client and builder/plumber etc., using architects drawings for measurements, pipework, etc. Just not sure what extra value architect will be adding. Will maybe suggest he charges an hourly rate for his time spent on it.

We are in exactly the same position - I could have written your post! Our architect has a lot of experience doing similar projects, appreciates the process and I think will be an excellent partner. However, his initial fee proposal was 19% of the build cost. We were very taken aback and asked him was there any room for negotiation. It is now 13% of build plus some small fees for site visits and other consultancy pieces. While I have no doubt we have chosen the right architect I am a little wary that he knocked his fate by almost 59% overnight.

50% I mean!

It may be the case,that he's charging you for project managing the whole works. This could be money well spent! But check what he's done before. In person.

Thanks Jaxhog. He is definitely qualified. We have properly checked him out. We have checked the RIBA website for fee scales and read all terms and conditions and everything else. It's not his fee that is in question it's the EXTRA percentage he wants on top based on cost of what he refers to as 'supplementary works', ie, kitchen, bathroom, alarms, etc. I assumed that would be included in his main build and design fee.

Hi aview! I think ours is now 13% too. We have managed to knock of various bits already but I am just not sure about this extra fee. Minefield isn't it!!

Thanks Jaxhog - yes he will be project managing which is great and not in question, but not justified I feel with the kitchen! Specially as based on COST of the kitchen. Surely his advice would be the same if fitting a cheap cooker or an expensive cooker?!

Hi we had this - 50% of usual fee for kitchens etc. We pushed but but told tough. There is quite a bit of work and drawings they ended up having to do to integrate kitchen company work with the main contractor so it didn’t feel like a total waste of money in the end. Also stuff like lighting, sockets and services.

Gotcha Op. It does sound a bit excessive then. Have you asked him exactly what he'll be doing for this?

Or you could ask his previous clients what he charged them ?

Sorry late response... upon further reading which sounds pompous now i've written that it does indeed seem excessive...

Our architect gave us the basic kitchen layout as part of the interior design, but the kitchen designer worked with us on the detail of what to put where, eg dishwasher, bin, cupboards etc, which was all part of the kitchen purchase. As they would have done, still without charge, if we were just replacing a kitchen in any house.

Exactly Leaky. We are going to have a call with him today and ask him what exactly he will be doing for this extra %! I will report back. Many thanks everyone.