Quote from builder vs architect plans

[cluelesstotallyclueless]

I wonder if anyone has had experience of this?

Early last year we decided to engage an architect to undertake some plans for us. By way of background we live in a 3 bed semi, less than 25 years old in London.

We are at end of our road and have space to side so we decided on double side extension and rear extension, half double, half single on neighbours sides. At the very first meeting, architect asked our budget, which we said was 100k, he said right healthy budget. We also discussed cost of property locally, how much it would cost if we moved rather carry out works. Architect said it would probably be in in region of £250-300k to move up property ladder, which knowing local market is correct, (given increase in mortgage, stamp duty, moving fees, solicitors, estate agent fees).

Anyway the architect did plans, submitted planning, which was approved. We got a structural engineer to do drawings, have got a party wall surveyor.

We spoke with a builder that the architect recommended and their quote arrived a few weeks ago and we were shocked the quote was coming out in excess of £250k.

We were very specific about our budget with architect, we did have a contingency so probably could go up to £150k, (extending mortgage further, dipping into savings, maybe putting bits and pieces on credit cards, short term loan from parents etc).

I spoke to builder and said thanks very much, but totally out of our budget, he said this happens frequently as the design presented is not in line with client's budget.

We are speaking to other builders but I now feel totally down about the whole thing.

I dropped a quick email to architect and told him about quote, they said I can introduce other builders, that wasn't really my point. Yes, I do need to get other quotes but my thinking is that the design is out of line in terms of our budget.

We have spent several £1000 already but I'm just wondering if anyone has had experience of this, one builder quoting so highly and other quotes being in line with your expectations?
Thanks

We had rough drawings then spoke to some builders before going down the route of planning etc. Wanted to get a ball park figure to make sure we could afford it

We're still very new to this and learning as we go along.... We're one month in to a build and have had to make a few changes to the architects plans to get it down to our budget. Some of the changes we have made (with the help of our builder) to bring costs down are: different bricks, cheaper coping stones, cheaper skylights, normal door rather than pocket door and joining the roof at a point - rather than with a step as on the architect's plans.
If you can, ask the builder where you could bring costs down and check the architect's specifications. We found that some of the things, like the fancy stones and bricks could easily be changed and the main reduction in cost was with the roof.

I hope that helps a bit.

Arkos, thank you an well yes, but we were and more importantly thought we could be guided by our architect and actually in terms of a plan they had quite innovative ideas that we wouldn't have come up with ourselves and the builders couldn't quote without structural engineers drawings (drainage issues) and SE couldn't do drawings without architect's drawings. So bit of a catch 22 I thought, but yes I take your point.

However, I think I'm asking should the architect have an awareness of what their designs would costs? We picked a local architect who is active in our area and undertaken lots of similar projects.

Thank you, Hoppahouse, the quote we had was actually very comprehensive and lays out everything they will do and also everything they won't do, which I think is important also. There may be parts we could cut down on but dont' think we could slash half the budget to be honest. And not sure if they are particularly expensive or reasonably priced.

I got the feeling that our architect had a rough idea that it was 1000k per sq metre however in reality it is more like 1500-1800
We are only just getting surveyor drawings now and then will get a detailed quote. But our builders have done the job before so when they say 50k or whatever I have a good idea on price. They did that just on rough plans

I work in the office of a construction firm. This is so common. The worst is when designers get involved. They can really run away with themselves.

The builder has to cover himself too and take into account a multitude of things that might go wrong from inclement weather to a supply problem holding up works to something being discovered that makes a difference. He will also have the more up to date knowledge on current prices for materials and specialist trades.

You do need to get lots of quotes though, ours varied by more than 100k, 80k for the cheapest and 180k for the most expensive!
It does sound like you are doing a lot, is there any way of doing it in stages?

Get some more quotes from external sources and then see what the one recommended by the architect comes back with. If he says he can do it for about 100 but others all want around 250, please do not be tempted to go with the lowest quote. We learnt this the hard way.

Comefromaway, thank you for that. Yes, I got that impression when I spoke to the builder that the architect had got carried away. And I understand they have to have factor in this points you're raising.

The architect is obviously a talented designer but if their plan is incompatible with our budget then that doesn't really help us at this point.

I'm thinking we could re-assess our plans but given what was designed ticked all our boxes, it would be so disappointing. And we'd need more drawings etc meaning we'd incur additional costs.

Tika77, yes am going to get some more quotes and that's what is bringing me down. We may get cheaper quotes but would they actually be reflective of what needs to be done, or they may quote a lower figure but then start and say oh we didn't realise that needed doing and it's going to ££ to do.

Shera, not sure we could do in stages, as the side build is attached to the rear part and lots of internal walls are being bashed down.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing though, wish we had done something similar to what Arkso described before we got all fired up.

Posters on MN often say £1500 (+vat) per square metre but I think £2000+ is more realistic (in the SE at least) and that's for a basic uncomplicated shell.

We've just had plans done. Architect is saying expect build cost to be around £1600 per sq m inc VAT. Not London/SE. We cut costs by ditching utility room, specifying all windows/door must be a standard size so builder can buy off the shelf. More wall less bifold door on longside.

Thanks everyone who has posted. Has anyone had experience of one quote being completely over their budgets and others being more in line with what they were expecting?

We're in NW, did a double storey extension 2 yes ago & it was about £2k per sq m plus VAT, plus all the extras (kitchen, bathrooms, flooring, decoration). It was a standard extension. Your architect seems out if touch with building costs.

We also had to cut back when we realised the costs- we just went out at the back instead if back & side and submitted an amended application for pp.

Thank you Namechange. Having another look, it's around 2.5k per sq m plus VAT.

I did have a conversation previously with the architect about costs and he was estimating a much lower figure, maybe £1k or £1.5k per sq m, so think they must be out of touch with costs. Cant quite remember the exact figure, maybe somewhere between 1k and 1.5k.

For those that amended plans, did your architect charge you again to make alterations to plans?

It was slightly different in that we hadn't used an architect, just a technician and hadn't discussed budget so yes we did pay twice.

We're in the south east and have been quoted 2-2.5k per square metre. That's what we worked from. Both quotes came under that so we were pleased. What you intend to do does not sound like 100k will be enough. We're doing a single storey 6x6m and all in including kitchen, downstairs toilet etc is roughly 80k (haven't picked kitchen yet£

Thanks namechange.

Mummyshark, thank you for posting. I really do think if you have an architect they should work within the parameters set by their clients. I'll have to wait and see what the other quotes come out at though not feeling very optimistic at the moment.

Urgh - architects are not my fave people!! I will now only use chartered surveyors who have crossed over to become architectural designers as they are a. Cheaper and b. Seem to have a much more realistic attitude to costs. With our last house we told the architect what we hoped to do and that the budget was £150k, he said great, designed plans and when the quotes came in they varied from £500-750k - I kid you not!! God my blood still boils...we went with a much simpler design that I’d come up with myself and asked a surveyor to do the drawings. The amount we paid that over qualified git for nothing of use makes me want to weep.

I have had experience of this
but in a commercial setting, not domestic.
Architect offered small, medium and large schemes and we opted for medium at around £160,000 that was quickly changed to an estimate of £175,000 as the kitchen spec was upgraded. This was priced by a qs firm and we went to tender.
Quotes came back between £230 and £280
I felt the same as you and a couple of us met the architects. As soon as I saw they had three architects and two quantity surveyors at the meeting, I realised that the "big guns" were out. They couldn't explain to me what had happened and wanted us to accept the lowest tender.
We had been advised to bat the problem back to them, get them to alter the specification and go back out to tender. They weren't keen but they did it and the lowest quote came back at £174.800 from the previous lowest quoting building firm.
The changes were not noticeable and the quality of work was excellent.
We were raging and we harnessed that to make it the architects problem

If you are having walls demolished, presumably structural work is required, plus the side and rear extension with new roof and attaching it to the existing building - this will never be £100,000. Common sense would have told you that! The internal alterations are probably quite a chunk of money and floors need to be made good not to mention all finishes to walls. This isn’t an extension, it’s remodelling. Nearly every tv show and posters on MN seem to think you get something for nothing. You don’t. Kirsty Alsopp is way out on pricing!

What you can do is reduce the spec. Sit down with the architect and get them to address the situation as they have not met the brief. They let you get carried away and didn’t listen to your budget. However, they are the qualified expert, not you! They should now be willing to change the plans so it probably means losing part of the extension. Perhaps a better garden for entertaining would be just as good and cheaper to install?

Op,

Totally understand your frustration. I have been through this twice. Both the times asked other people who have actually built extension, used that 2500 per sqm formula, asked ballpark from builders with good recommendations, asked architect spent time and money on plans and structural drawings. But after everything is prepared builders sent new quotes with much higher (1.5 to double) quotes. When I ask one builder, he made excuse like beams are too big etc. When I showed in his own breakdown that beam cost is 12k how can quote change by over 80k then new excuse like the materials have gone up in price etc or just completely refuse that he ever had the first discussion of drawing and quote even though I can show the email. Another one just won't pickup my phone or reply email. One was honest and he did say sorry I made mistake when I first quoted. And another one took a new project while I got drawings done according to his suggestions and now says he is busy for another year at least. We are not naive, haven't seen those TV programs etc, just wanted basic spec and IKEA kitchen etc and have realistic budget +20% contigency.

We had exactly this, for a double store side and rear extension.

We gave the architect a budget of £100k, in the end the work came in around £300k this did however include renovating the existing house which hadn't been touched since the 1930s.

We also saved a lot of money by managing the build ourselves, finding all our own trades, roping in family members wherever possible, decorating the whole thing ourselves and saving money on the kitchen/bathrooms.

When we approached the architect about why it'd been so far out his reply was 'well the place is worth a fortune now so what does it matter'.

I don't think we've made a loss on it, and it's exactly how we want it. But luckily we managed to 'find' the money to get it finished.

Thank you Mum and Aiming for your posts. It's frustrating that you've had a similar experience, good to hear you got there eventually Aiming.

As I said in previous posts, I was expecting to be guided by the architect, surely that's their area of expertise and no I absolutely don't expect something for nothing.

Thanks to those that replied, I will wait for more quotes and speak to architect again, I have already messaged them but need some more definitive before we decide to rethink plans.

Yes this happened to us.

Quotes coming back at double/triple our budget (we don’t actually even have a budget this is just a finger in the wind number).

We are now dropping to one storey 😟
But will be able to get into the second storey in the future.

Have you thought about having work done to wind and water tight then finishing it off?

We’ve had massively varied prices btw