Do we need an architect for internal remodel?

[RemodellingMyHouse]

We are planning to start getting quotes from builders for a remodel of our downstairs. No extension is needed, but the changes will include the removal of a load bearing wall and putting an RSJ in (which we have got structural engineer calculations and sketch for), and the erection of new stud walls to create a new layout.

The work will also include changes to external doors and windows (a window will become patio doors, and a side door will become a window), plumbing (new downstairs WC, and kitchen sink and dishawasher will move), some electrics, and moving some radiators.

We know what we want the new layout to be, and have got a structural engineer to look at the wall to be removed etc. Do we also need an architect to draw up proper scale plans, or can we just do this in consultation with builders? For context, we're not expecting the building part of the work to cost more than £20k - £25k.

We used a structural engineer for our entire extension so it should be fine for just a remodelling.

That's good to hear - I was worrying that we migh be being cavalier in thinking we can do this without an architect!

You need proper plans drawing up yes for building regs (even if you don't need planning permission) and also for the structural engineer and builder to work off.
You don't need an actual architect though, indeed a lot wouldn't be interested if you know what you already want as no capacity for them to put their stamp on it.
We had very similar and got drawings done by a draughtsman which was much cheaper.

Does building regs compliance require proper plans then, even if the work is done by a competent person?

Why wouldn't you use an Architect? They aren't that expensive and you'll get something designed for your family as opposed to a builder just constructing what they do for everyone else i.e. bunging up a wall and throwing some windows in based on what they have in stock. An Architect will look at how you plan to use the space, the connection between the inside and outside space and design something that makes the most of the spaces and is unique to you Who wouldn't want that?

And yes, many Architects specialise in this sort of thing. Call the RIBA for Architects in your area.

Can the engineer do the drawings for you? If it’s semi detached, you’ll need to do the party wall stuff if it’s within a certain distance of your neighbours etc

It's a detached house, so I'm not worried about party wall issues.

The reason I'm not so bothered about the design is because we know what we want. This isn't a huge construction project.

I'll have a think about it, but I don't want to pay for a design that we don't need.

A draughtsman may be the best solution.

If your happy with your builder, and happy to liaise with him over the scope of the work, you do not need drawings.

For this they would be handy, so you have a set “plan” of where things are to go. But providing you have given your builder something, like a list or a sketch you have done yourself, then I don’t see an issue.

You are NOT required to submit plans for building control. There are two types of building regulations application. There is the Full Plans Approval route. This is where plans are submitted to BC, and are checked prior to work commencing on site.

However if this is minor internal remodelling, you can complete the work under a Building Notice. For this route you do not have to submit plans, but I would give them a copy of your structural calculations.

Why wouldn't you use an Architect? They aren't that expensive

^Yeah not that expensive(!). Not in my experience

If you know what you want and how you want it configured, I can't see why you'd need an architect, especially for what would be, to them, a very small project..
We had a massive extension built without using an architect for that very reason, i.e, I knew what I wanted and where. I used a plan drawer chap who also dealt with the building regs. He was recommended to me by my builder.

I think that's what we'll do. We know a oval guy who draws up technical plans etc, and having something like that will be useful when getting quotes from builders.

We did use an architect when remodelling our ground floor and a bathroom. They looked at our property and garden from a different perspective and suggested all sorts of ideas we had not considered. However our spend was around £350,000 so a very different project.

Yes get a draughtsman or architectural technician to draw up some plans based on your requirements. Building control would probably accept a hand drawn plan done by yourselves but at least a proper plan will give the builders something to follow and they’ll know exactly where to put walls, sockets etc without vaguely guessing your requirements. Also will make it easier for the builders to quote more accurately.

I agree that if your approaching builders to quote, I would have plans drawn. This ensures that all of the quotations are based on the same information, and therefore more reliable.

We got an architectural designer to draw up our plans for our internal remodel, afraid I can't remember the precise cost but it was somewhere between 100 and 200 pounds. It's definitely worth having done before you get the builders in, as it makes misunderstandings over exactly what you meant less likely. It also means you can draw on things like where you want lights and light switches to go. With a scale drawing you can draw in things like your furniture which is helpful in visualising whether or not your initial lighting ideas will work.

Won't building control only need to see the calculations for the RSJ (which you have)? What else needs signing off?

If you know the layout, I really don't see the point of an architect. But I'd want to give the builders a decent scale drawing to work from, showing exact locations of power points, light switches, door opening directions, window heights etc (and placement of all services in the kitchen of course). You could be happy to do this yourself. We did with fine graph paper and a 1:20 scale ruler, and the builders were very happy to work with that and there were no issues. But architects can give you different ways of thinking about space as someone said up thread. May be worth getting a rough idea of their fees and seeing whether it's worth getting an extra brain on board.

You can't submit anything that requires structural calculations under a building notice, you need the full app process.

But it looks like OP will be getting plans drawn anyway.

I'm not sure that's true - you don't need planning for internal work unless you're listed. You do need building regs, which you can arrange yourself (which I have done - it's very straightforward).

It's true, I'm referring to the building reg process, you are referring to the planning process

@Thewixxx
This must depend on the Building Control Inspector. I’ve worked in the industry 12 years and my DP runs a building firm. From experience you can still do “minor” internally remodelling under a building notice, even if this includes structural alterations. Providing that the calculations are completed and provided to the Building Inspector. This is because this scope of works rarely includes items which are regulated by Building Control, as electrical etc is certified.

@Duvetday2day
That is interesting to hear, I was at a site meeting with myself, builder, client and BCO, work being done under a building notice, and we found a chimney that was being held up at first floor by two small timbers. The BCO said he wanted a new beam to hold up the chimney - but we couldn't submit it under a Building Notice because the beam needed calcs from a structural engineer.
So perhaps you are right, it is just this particular BCO who is asking for it (he definitely said anything with structural calculations needed a full building notice). I have been designing extensions for about 15 years and this is the first time I have had to do this, but it was a bit of a unique situation.

@Thewixxx It's strange how things can change from one Local Authority to the next. From experience I have found that one thing might be acceptable in one area and not in the adjoining one.
My DP has just completed a 3m x 4m extension on the rear of a property, permitted development. The rear wall of the property was removed, to create a large opening and two beams installed to support existing roof, wall and f.joists. He completed the work under a building notice, no drawings where completed. The steel was calculated by a SE, and he just handed them to the BCO on inspection.

Similar, I removed a supporting internal wall to open up a kitchen / dining on a property. This was supporting F.Joists, Purlins, wall, again building notice and just handed over SE calcs to the BCO.

I think if their is only minor elements which are regulated by building control, they don't want the hassle of completing a full plan check, and therefore happy to complete under a building notice providing the SE calcs are completed.