I am so angry right now! Public access dispute

[Realitea]

Just moved into a lovely cottage which is on the land of a larger house. As I don’t drive I asked neighbours if there was an alternative route to the bus stop that didn’t involve the old dirt track with no lighting. They all said it’s fine to cut across the building site or use the path behind the site which looks like the bottom of someone’s driveway. I’ve been doing that for the past two months. Tonight, the owner of the building site absolutely lays into me (verbally!) and says to use the track as her deeds say that only the people in the house can use it as right of way and not the cottage! I tried to be as nice as possible but she was so rude I’m quite shocked. I’m beginning to wish I’d never moved here now as access is going to be a big problem.
According to the council it is a public right of way.
Does anyone have any advice? I’m renting so will speak to the landlord on Monday.

Seek a copy of the right of way and shove it up her.....
Nose

Can you speak to the relevant council dept and get them to tell the owner tough !

If it's a public right way then she can't restrict access. Watch out for her fencing it off or something similar.

If there is a building site it is possible the ROW has been diverted. You need something in writing to establish if it is a public ROW (footpath/bridleway) , a Permissive path (which the landowner can withdraw) or RIght of Access for specific properties. Your solicitor's paperwork should clarify this too.

She said it was a right of access for just the house and not us in the cottage.
I find that really bloody annoying as the house don’t even need to use it but we do!
I will speak to the council on Monday.

Surely it must be either a right of way (public access) or a right of access which may well only be for the house. Have you looked at the ordnance survey online map to see if it’s on there as a footpath?

The OP is renting and unlikely to have solicitor's paperwork. You can download ty title register for the building site from the gov.uk Land Registry site for £3 and that should detail the rights over the land. The title plan is an additional £3.

Thank you I will do that now. I’m determined to get to the bottom of this tonight!

You're welcome - make sure you use the genuine gov.uk site as third parties charge more for the same thing.

The best way to establish if there is a public right of way is to look at the Definitive Map that is held by the Local Authority Highways Dept. It may well be on line. If the path is not on the map, the public cannot assume they have access.

Some paths are permissive. The landowner deems who can use them. This could be in the deeds. It could well be that it’s a path for one property. You cannot assume you can use it. Your neighbours may be wrong. If it’s on the definitive map, you can and cannot be challenged. You presumably rented before you knew about the path, so you couldn’t have been too worried about the walk. Get a torch?

Thanks, that does help. However the other is marked grey and it doesn’t say what grey means!
I got the title plan and it shows a red boundary line but the land is blue so this must be where the deeds come in which say only the house can use it.
I just find it really un neighbourly to be so bloody strict about it, it’s only my family, no one else! It’s a very quiet area and you wouldn’t get just anybody walking down there.
I know the neighbours are wrong now. I also asked permission from who I thought was the owner of the building site who also said it’s fine to walk through. It turns out he was just one of the builders.
We did ask about the path before renting and we were told it was ok to go that way. The previous tenant told us he walked that way in bad weather without any problems.
I have a torch and I have a feeling I’m going to have to use it from now on.

Ordenancesurvey.co.uk may be useful? Lots more detail looking through.

It's showing as a public road on there! and it does on the definitive map too. I've emailed the council.

Did you get the title register as well as the plan OP? It doesn't sound as though you did. Title plans don't have a key like road or Ordnance Survey maps. You need the title register to understand the markings, shading of any colour, etc. The title register have details of any rights of access over the building site land for the other properties.

Ah yes, sorry, I did have the title plan too. It said nothing about access but did refer to restrictions on different matters when referring to the blue and pink tinting. The only one I could see in the title plan was that they aren’t allowed to keep certain animals! The only rule for access I can see is for the local water provider.

I’d be tempted to go around with a bottle of wine and say you’re so sorry, you were misinformed by your neighbours and you’d never have used it if you’d known, you’d just moved in and wanted to avoid using the dark muddy lane at night.

I know they were wrong to get so angry, but sometimes if you disarm people with kindness you’re more likely to get what you want.

Bubbles has this nailed

Look at the definitive map

It’s not the same as an OS map and will be found at the local highways or county record office
It maybe that you have to do some research in their offices
Solar lights on the other path and a head torch until you have it sorted

I like Hermione's advice. Bet it'll work a charm.

I was thinking of doing what hermione suggested but the neighbour was so awful I don’t know if I could face her again. It’s a shock moving here as where I lived before was so friendly and no one in this new area has been particularly nice to us. I feel we are looked down on as we’re in the cottage not one of the large houses and we rent.

The definitive map showed there should be a path going between the top of their property. I reported it to the council.

If it’s on the definitive map and the path has a number (FP ?) it’s open to the public.

Some areas are not friendly!

However, as a landowner in the countryside, I have had people trying to walk over “paths” on my land. I do maintain a bridleway and have permitted a new path. However people cannot just walk from A to B over my land because they feel like it. I have never shouted at anyone and it hasn’t happened for a while now but I am cross when people cut down fencing when trying to access a route they want but isn’t on the map. I do understand your viewpoint but there are groups that will push for a path to be allowed because people have walked it! The landowner won’t want that to happen. However if it’s on the definitive map it’s open to the public. Do you have a local ramblers Group? Ask them if they can walk it. They may also know the history of it.

It does have a number and is definitely a right of way. I didn’t realise but my brother reported it a few months ago and they are investigating it. She seemed sure it was in the deeds that only one house had access aswell. Maybe a new path could be permitted.
There is a local ramblers group, I’ll ask them if they have any info
Thank you 😊

If they try to block the path, they will be committing a criminal offence under Section 137 of the Highways Act 1980. It might be worth contacting you LA, and let them deal with the land owner - its their job to do so.

I will let the agent know tomorrow and see what they can do.

If it has a number on the definitive plan, then inform the highways section of your Local Authotity that you have been prevented from walking on it. They often have a dedicated footpath Officer. The Ramblers are usually aware of difficult land owners and try and keep these paths open.

You may find the inclusion of the path on the definitive map is being disputed but the footpath Officer will know. I hope you can walk where you are entitled to walk without further difficulty.

Thanks, I hope so too, especially in winter. I don’t like to make my Dd walk through there to get back from school