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Original poster

Sell end of garden or extend mortgage to fund extension?

65 replies

Neverunderfed · 22/12/2018 18:25

As above really. We have a small 3 bed semi on a massive plot in a rural location. Our garden is very long and backs on to fields. For the last year we, in association with the neighbours, have been applying for planning permission to chop off the ends of both of our gardens and sell as a plot for a large property. Dh did all the design and it has been a big job...and last week permission was approved.

But now we have slightly tepid feet. On being valued, we would net about £45-50k. Which obviously isn't to be sneezed at. The plot is worth 3 times that but next door have the point of access and are very determined on the money they want for it.

If we got £45k we would need to borrow a similar amount to extend...we would be doing a two storey to the side and single storey across the back to make a study, big kitchen diner, an extra bedroom and family bathroom. It is our 'forever' home 🤮 and we want it to be suitable for the three kids as they inevitably grow.

But we are now worried that we will regret losing the end of the garden and having a house there instead, when the money we would net won't be enough to do the whole job. Our loan to value is very good as is, less than 50%, we could borrow enough to do the whole extension pushing the mortgage up to around 70% LTV.

But I'm nervous about having a bigger mortgage too! With all the Brexit uncertainty etc etc.

What would you do?

OP posts:
HerbNotErb · 22/12/2018 21:13

Nope, I wouldn't sell

namechangealerttt · 22/12/2018 21:32

You will devalue your house, if people want to buy in a semi rural location, they will not want to be overlooked.

BlankTimes · 22/12/2018 21:55

Right now, you say yours is your forever home, but there are loads of potential things which may to happen that could change your mind about that.

Consider
The new house goes ahead and the new people put up a load of sheds and outbuildings in their garden or plant bamboo alongside your boundary which spoils your open view and reduces the value of your house. You can't control a view of course and estate agents will tell you it doesn't affect the price, but...

The new house owners have motor-racing type hobby and all their friends come and go and do their cars up so you get a lot of traffic past your house and a lot of noise from car/bike enthusiasts tinkering with engines, but nothing you can do as it's just a hobby, albeit one that takes up most days and evenings.

The new house owners are just noisy full stop, dogs outside barking all day, kids screaming as opposed to normal playing, drunken parties, or they let it as Air B+B for 'those' type of parties Xmas Wink

Or they have a smelly woodburner and spend some time every day chainsawing logs.

Imagine any scenario that's featured on a neighbour thread on here over the last year.

Worst case, if you pull out of the garden sale, next door may now get the hump with you and cause bad neighbour problems.

I honestly don't think it's worth you selling because of the potential 'what if's'. I'm sure there are some cases of people doing what you're proposing that have turned out really well, but I don't think you've thought about all the possible downsides of having people living so close who could make your life hell.

Springmachine · 22/12/2018 22:17

We were offered £8k to sell a tony fee feet of our garden.
I didn't think it would be worth it for the thought of what might then be erected there forever more and it wasn't enough money to snake it worthwhile, especially as it would potentially affect the value of the house forever more.

Alexalee · 22/12/2018 22:25

Should be 50 50 split... neither plot is probably worth anything without the other

redredrobins · 22/12/2018 22:29

Who first came up with the idea, you or the neighbours?
If your neighbours then you have more opportunity to negotiate the figures.

PierreBezukov · 22/12/2018 22:31

I would not sell in your position. I'd hate for lose my nice open aspect and have a house where there used to be my garden and my view. Lots of houses on my road sold off their gardens and it ruined every single one of them.

StrongTea · 22/12/2018 22:44

I wouldn’t for £45k, maybe if it was 50/50 split. Your neighbours are taking advantage.

iknowimcoming · 22/12/2018 22:58

Just a thought - would you still be ok getting pp for what sounds like a sizeable extension with a reduced plot size I.e. if you sold the bottom of your garden, councils do consider size of buildings in relation to plot size - also bear in mind that your new neighbours (in the building plot) could object to your extension on grounds of overlooking etc and then you'd have no extension and have lost your garden too, sorry to sound pessimistic but I speak from bitter experience with planning permission Sad

MadeForThis · 22/12/2018 23:05

Definitely should be a 50:50 split.

TheCraicDealer · 23/12/2018 01:16

I wouldn't do that for 45k- I'd need to be at the very least close to breaking even on the extension, and you're talking about spending twice that on the works. Call your neighbours' bluff and say you've done the sums and taken advice and it doesn't add up financially given the amount of work for your DH, the loss of value to your own home and potential impact on future applications. Remember as well if they're so fixed on price any fluctuations on fees or sale price (theoretically) will be yours to bear.

They think that they have the upper hand because they have the access point and that they're getting 100k for little to no work on their part- they'll have the money half spent in their heads. As you say, they might get a small gardenless property on their own "offcut" but the chances of that getting planning are more remote (especially if the neighbours object...) and they certainly wouldn't get anywhere near 100k for it. You have way more leverage than you think.

RollerJed · 23/12/2018 01:25

Don't sell. As pp said you're in a rural area, and that's what prospective buyers want. If you sell land, new house goes up and it's not suitable for you then you may struggle to sell your house.

And definitely no to your NN getting so much more! If the land is 48/52 then that's how it should be split.

user8905 · 23/12/2018 01:48

The neighbour may object if you extend, purely for killing off their potential windfall. You could always leave as is and decide in a few years time.

SushiMonster · 23/12/2018 09:10

Your DH did all the design work, and you’re still thinking about accepting 1/3 of the sales value despite having equal sized plots.

No thanks.

If you do want to go ahead and sell you need to renegotiate a % split of the sales price with the neighbours.

What is the likelihood of the Fields ever getting planningoermission. Will your semi rural location end up getting built up anyway?

NicoAndTheNiners · 23/12/2018 09:15

OP, I actually have a near identical house/garden set up to you. It has previously crossed my mind that i could ask NDN if they wanted to do what you and your NDN are proposing.

But then I decided I like my garden more......and I don't even have the loss of a field view to contend with. I already back onto houses and I still wouldn't do it even though I'd still have a 100ft long garden if I sold some off.

TheMincePiesAreMine · 23/12/2018 09:54

If they stick adamantly to the 100k then are they expecting you to take all the risk too? If the profit gets substantially eaten into by extra costs or lower sale price, your 45-50k will be eroded. If you are jointly 30k off at the end, how will you split that? Them getting 100k and you 15k would be ridiculous. 85/30k would still feel wrong to me. It should be them taking 2/3 of the risk so 80/35.

I agree with PPs, your neighbours are taking you for a ride. They need your land and you'd be giving up view and privacy too. I would be tempted to walk away at that price and see if they decide to compromise, to make it worth your while, if you still want to go ahead at all.. You have as much power as they do here, and if they won't compromise at this stage they are probably not the people to be sharing this financial risk with.

mummmy2017 · 23/12/2018 09:59

OK... Had a thought...
Both OK you should put in for your extensions... Now...
Tell them you need to make sure it is possible, before you even think about selling land...
Then once you can build.... You just tell them you think you should give them. 5k for their access rights and split the rest according to the 48. 52 ratio.
This way they can't stop you build.... In spite.

Hezz · 23/12/2018 10:05

Absolutely no way.

You'll regret this and will end up moving away and it won't be your forever home.

Tell the CF neighbours a big fat NO too, that's bordering on outrageous.

Hezz · 23/12/2018 10:09

My SIL moved into a house where they had sold the garden for housing, her garden was still very big but the neighbours were loud and spent hours in the garden on trampolines etc.

She moved after one summer.

PotteryLady · 23/12/2018 10:12

I wouldn't do it.

stayathomegardener · 23/12/2018 10:17

You would be insane to accept that split.
Question is how do you get out of it without upsetting the neighbours more than you have to.
I like the idea of sowing the seed of doubt about the figures and putting planning in for your extensions first. Very smart move.

SD1978 · 23/12/2018 10:28

Maybe a 60/40 so show the access. But without your part, they get nothing, so really they are being daft. Yes they have access, but your plot is also necessary or they get nothing. I understand you want to keep things friendly, but I wouldn't accept what is currently being offered. I'd rather back out than accept less than you deserve of the deal.

SD1978 · 23/12/2018 10:29

Also/ who has the initial idea?

MsChookandtheelvesofFahFah · 23/12/2018 10:30

Wow CF neighbours! Say you've taken advice (no need to say where from Wink) and 50/50 seems fair. They have more land and you've done the grunt work. If they are driving it then they need to be able to compromise, their mortgage is no more important than your future plans. Has the land been valued, with and without pp? If not 50/50 then sq ft ratio. They must bear in mind that without you they might get nothing or less than 100k.

bluefolder · 23/12/2018 10:32

Say you'll do it for 52:48 and negotiate to 60:40 but no further, then you'll get £90k and can do your extension. If you don't sell they can't get their money presumably.