Balcony and planning permission *images removed by MNHQ at OP's request*

[Morley19]

Does anyone have any experience of balconies and planning permission? Epxperience of a situation similar to mine?

My neighbours have put this up without planning permission. I have reported it and they have to put a retrospective planning application in.

The photo looking outside is the view from my bedroom window. gives them a direct view into my bedroom and even onto my landing. The external photo shows the vastness of it and the ridiculous amount of overlooking.

To me, there is no way they should get planning permission for this. but I hear of such weird decisions by councils. I have already drafted my objection (the planning application is meant to be in by end of this week) but I am very worried that they may get approval.

Thanks

I've just read something that says buildings regs enforcement has to be taken within 12 months of work.

what would be the work in this case though?

The French doors and conversion of a pitched roof to a flat roof happened 5 years ago now.

During that time he council told me that the could do this work without planning permission and safety railings weren't needed as on private property.

If safety railings were in fact needed, would the council have needed to enforce against that within 12 months of the pitched roof being changed to a flat roof?

Their Planning permission was to put in new windows. We only realised they wanted to use the flat roof when we saw their builders put in french doors rather than the ordinary windows specified in their planning permission. We went back to the planning department and discovered that had been granted a 'variation', even though no-one had contacted us. We objected to the planning department (DH is our local councillor) and asked the planning people to make it clear that the french doors had to have a Juliet balcony (this stops access to the flat roof). Our argument was based on privacy (the roof overlooks our living room and bedroom) and safety (single story roof). The flat roof, btw, has been there for over 40 years.

Our neighbours weren't too happy, but we are friends again.

Yes, we were well within 2 years of the french doors.

I don't understand the flat roof/balcony 'private land' argument but will ask DH.

I did find this article, which may help (and contradicts what the building control person told you).

www.saga.co.uk/magazine/home-garden/homes-interiors/surveyor-questions/john-conlin-can-i-turn-a-flat-roof-into-a-balcony

Thanks Jaxhog

I have seen that article before. I have emailed the buildings regs guy again this morning.

I suspect my problem will be that, even if there is a change of mind, I am well outside the year/two years (I find conflicting advice on this online, whether it is one or two years) of the french doors being installed.

The likely worst case scenario is that they will be obliged to put up a privacy screen, so they can't look into your bedroom.

Can you clarify the timescales please? How long have the railing and french doors been there?

Thanks Jaxhog

The application did have a privacy screen on the side bit but the whole lot (railings and side screen) were denied on the basis that it was creating an enclosure that encourages prolonged periods of overlooking. so, whilst it kind of shoots me in the foot not having the side screen there, it is part of a bigger picture in not having anything that encloses a flat roof. The side screen also gives no protection against the complete loss of privacy over my entire garden)

Timescales, the flat roof and french doors went in just over 5 years ago. I spoke to the council (planning department) a few times after that and they said that all of that was permitted development but to let them know if they ever enclosed the roof as they would need planning permission (I also have an email from them saying the same about 'use' but they have now had a turnaround on that and said they can't stop people just using the flat roof).

The railings went up October 2018 (even though the neighbours knew they needed planning permission they just did it anyway). I reported it and the council instructed them to get a retrospective application in. Took them about 4 months (with constant chasing) to do this. The application was for the railings that were already there and provision of glass screen to side.

It had loads of abjections and was refused end of May 2019. As soon as it was refused they neighbours piled up their furniture up there and started using it (I don't think they realised until then that they could use it - ie the application wasn't about use).

They have now appealed the decision which will take months to decide.

I think from a building regs point of view I am screwed due to the timescales

I have also involved the police from an anti-social behaviour point of view, including the revolting make that lives there being within 1 metre of my bedroom when I was trying to get changed and smirking when he realised I was there.

It is just a nightmare. And like so many things in this country the law seems to protect the perpetrator

x

If they use the roof terrace without railings can you set up a motion sensor that trips a looped recording saying "warning you could fall off & kill yourself"? Totally agree with going back to council if fixed plant containers go up & whichever dept deals with H&S if the containers aren't fixed.

I doubt the council could enforce HS about the planters falling down if they fell into the same neighbours garden.

thanks Ladies

It is a minefield.

I am hoping that, IF the railings come down, they fall off the roof into their hot tub!

The building control officer may have been mistaken about the timings. As soon the the railings are taken down they will be in breach of building regs. There is then only 12 months from the works happening to serve an enforcement notice. The officer may have thought it was already over this time limit so nothing he could do. Or he was fobbing you off?! They don't have a lot of resources for enforcement. The fact that it's a private property is neither here nor there, new building work should comply with the building regs. If they don't enforce them then what is the point of the regs?

Thinking about it more, I guess it is difficult to enforce against the use of it as a roof terrace as if the officer came to inspect, they would presumably say it was just a flat roof. Hmmmm. Not sure what you can do, other then to carry on complaining to as many people as possible in the council. Just hope they don't let kids out on to it if they do have to take the railings down

Hi tattypoo

Does the 12 months not run from when the work was done? Ie the flat roof and french doors finished?

Strictly speaking the removal of the railings would constitute new "works" and the 12 months would start from then. At the moment the previous works comply with bregs but if they do new works to remove the railings, the new works do not comply.

Very interesting tattypoo

I really didn’t know that

How do I go about it? If the railings come down do I just get in contact with building regs?

I really hope this is a new avenue for you to explore!

Guys

This is what the idiots have now done

Now remember the application was for retention of the railings that were already there and insertion of a glass screen. The application for both got refused. . They have submitted an appeal

Today they have put this monstrosity up. They have secured it to the railings, thereby creating a permanent structure

So despite the application for a screen being denied they have ploughed on regardless and created one. One which is worse than a glass screen

I have sent these pics to the enforcement officer as I believe this should be addressed?? It is basically another breach?

The complete disregard and lack of respect for the decision made by the planning department is astounding

[Post edited by MNHQ to remove photos]

Thanks random

Wtf? Sorry your neighbours are wankers op! Imagine sitting out in the sun behind that monstrosity 🤣

Thanks ilikefastcars

Yes they are indeed wankers. The worst kind.

I am confident the railings will come down. It is this flaw that prevents planning enforcing against use of the roof that is ridiculous

That is why I am looking at every other angle to prevent the vile behaviour of these vile people

I have even started a petition to try and address this problem. The link is a few messages up. Please feel free to sign it and pass on tonas many other people as poss!

Sorry to be pushy but let’s stop this happening to other people

Actually just realised the link to the petition isn’t on this thread anymore

Mumsnet moved it to the ‘petitions and activism’ section

My thread is called ‘please sign this’

I would be REALLY grateful if anyone could spare a minute to sign this

Thanks

@Morley19 that looks like a right fire hazard to me.

So they decided to make the non compliant railings even less compliant?
At least he can't see into your bedroom any more.

Exactly breakfast

Yes there is at least that, that he can't see into my bedroom.

However, I have reported this to the council. Which may seem like shooting myself in the foot but it is part of a bigger picture. Yes he can't see into my bedroom but if I don't challenge this and let it stay they are creating that enclosure and 'normalising' the balcony.

Will the council not look unfavourably on this? They explicitly refused the railings that were already there and the insertion of a new screen. The applicants have appealed, which, fair enough, is their right, but they have also just continued to develop the site regardless of the decisions by the council. They have basically stuck two fingers up to the council. I wouldn't be impressed if I was the planning officer that had decided this case?