Buyer anxious about lack of Listed Building Consent

[Ladybythebeach]

Hi,

An issue has come up this week with our house sale and I'm hoping there will be some people here are much more knowledgable/property savvy (not hard) than me who might be able to offer some advice.

We accepted an offer on our house last week from a cash buyer and had our offer accepted on a house we love. It's a short chain of 3, of which we're the middle.

Our buyer has raised a query last week regarding the lack of Listed Building Consent regarding some work we carried out 18 months ago, which is completely understandable and we would obviously do the same if in their situation.

Just to explain the backstory - DH works in the restoration/building industry and did initially submit the paperwork for the intended works at the start of the project, went forward with it and completely forgot to follow up getting Listed Building Consent. (We both work full time with two young children and life just got in the way).

(Yes, I am annoyed that he didn't get it sorted but maybe I should've checked up on this. However, building/DIY is his thing and I wrongly assumed it was in hand).

DH has redone the application retrospectively this week, discussed what photos/drawings will be needed with someone at the council and it's all been submitted. The person DH spoke to was pretty confident it will go through ok as the work has visibly improved the building).
This will obviously take a few weeks to get sorted. We have also asked our EA to forward an email from us to our buyer outlining the above process for reassurance and said they are welcome to discuss it further with DH if they want to.

Our buyer is being advised not to touch our property with a barge pole (by their surveyor I believe) although has not withdrawn their offer yet due to supposedly loving our property.

I'm not sure what else we can do to reassure them that the matter will all be resolved soon and we are doing everything we can to ensure the council have all the information they need.

Would very much welcome any thoughts.

I'm not surprised their conveyancers have advised caution... LBC process usually takes about 8 weeks for determination, and retrospective applications tend to be frowned on... If your husband didn't do the LBC initially, then there could be a sting in the tail coming.He needs to have the OK in principle from the Conservation Officer not just an OK from the planning team/case officer (because ultimately its the CO who advises any case officers). Dependent upon what work your husband did would also possibly make a difference- saying its "improved the house" is your opinion but really the LBC would have given the advice and certainty that you had...tricky... but retrospective app in, you now need to wait but make sure that you speak directly to the conservation officer (and don't say you were too busy to fill in the app.... It's actually a legal offence to undertake works to listed buildings without consent...as per the planning (listed buildings) act. ) and make sure that you comply with all the CO is asking for. It may be that you are required to redo works to spec. (without details of the works, its hard to advise further and if its simply replacing something like for like (exactly like for like) then obviously that is more than likely to go thru).

I'm very surprised anyone in the industry would carry out work on a listed building without consent. I don't understand why it was submitted at the time and didn't come through. Or why he proceeded to sale without getting it.

We live in a listed building and the previous owners had undertaken some work and if they had not had consent then our solicitor would also have told us not to take the risk till it was resolved.

Listed building work is not about "improving it" it's about maintaining the property as well, as it was. It is also illegal to do the work without the consent.

All in other than work to get the approval I think there is little you can do here and it's up to the buyers if they wish to stay in it and wait or find another property.

Really depends on your buyer and the work you have done.

Lots of work on Listed Buildings is entirely uncontroversial and no-one would be fussed about it.

However if your buyer is new to Listed Buildings this would probably freak them out completely. Or if your work is controversial/used wrong materials etc then this also would really put them off.

All you can do is keep being reassuring.

Is their surveyor a Listed Buildings expert? Again this could go either way for you. My surveyor reeled off all the stuff in my house that was against building regs or prob hadn't got permission but was also at pains to point out this was entirely normal for the average Listed property. Another surveyor might be wanting everything pinned down by the book.

Thank you for both responses - really appreciate it.

The work done was to rebuild the chimney stack as it was letting in a lot of water. DH found exact matches for bricks, pots etc.
At the time of doing the work, DH did discuss the details with a conservation officer and those aspects were ok'd.

I absolutely agree that buyer is right to be cautious - I would be!

I'm also furious that he didn't sort it at the time but am trying to keep calm about it as it's no help if I'm grumpy with him.

All you can do now is chase through the retrospective consent and hope you're buyers don't find something else they like. (if I was your buyer I'd start looking tbh).

On the positive side, if you do lose this buyer, you'll have it in place for the next offer.

Thanks Anna.

I'm really not sure who they're using as their surveyor. They are not local so could well be using someone familiar to them.

Will see what this week brings. I'm hoping they're still keen but are happy to wait until it's all sorted. We would be incredibly lucky if so!

Would rebuilding a chimney stack require consent? Would have thought that came under the category of repair so could go ahead without it.

I thought it only needed consent if it affected the character of the building which a pure repair should not do.

Are you members of the Listed Property Owners' Club? I'd ask them for advice.

You could ask the planners if there is the possibility of bringing the decision forward via delegated decision. This can bring the decision process forward by four weeks. It sounds pretty minor and as he sought the CO advise beforehand that’ll go someone towards the decision. Did you submit via the planning portal ? Restropective does annoy them but it’s done now.

I don't really understand if it was just repair, and done like for like, permission should not be required. It's only required if it alters the character of the building. In fact repairs are a requirement of owning a listed building and the local authority can force entry, carry out the roar and recover the cost from you.

If it was submitted at the time, and is simply a like for like repair, this doesn't make sense as it seems consent was not granted. In addition why a surveyor would say don't touch it with a barge pole in this context is odd.

Only if it's not done well or not in character then this could be viable.

*someway

@ladybythebeach key issue here would be use of materials. So if he's used concrete rather than lime mortar. But the finer details here will be that he needed to know what the actual original lime mortar mix content was and match to that to prevent further consolidation issues....thats the whole purpose of Lbc-to flesh out proposals and ensure that the works conserve the property. In relation to the potential new buyers, there's really nothing to say to them but it's in hand. The delays your experiencing are as a result of him not following the legal process (maybe thinking he could get away without lbc??) and ultimately you are both responsible for the wait. There may be a requirement for him to redo these works if he hasn't used appropriate materials. Direct contact with the councils conservation officer is your best bet to find out EXACTLY what time wait and what details you need to sumbit. Be VERY apologetic. You have broken the law and tried to bypass planning policy- intrinsically, you haven't got the planning permission for this work (if you had put in an extension without planning permission on a new build you'd also expect the new owners to renege on any offer...)

@bluntness101.you still need to apply for the consent for repairs... It's a simple form, done online, takes 5 mins. And you still would get a consent letter through. Unless you've applied for a heritage partnership with the council but that's more for stately homes. Also.. Depending on the grading of the property. Assumed here it's grade II. Anything above and Historic England also need to be notified.

Ah thanks dinorattle, that's useful to know.

It does mean that this just doesn't make sense though op. It would indicate consent was refused and he went ahead anyway? I think you need more info, as what you guys tell your buyers needs to be accurate or they will pull out if they think you're not being open.

I'm not surprised your buyers are being advised in such a way. You have carried out an offence which could result in a massive fine and/ or prison in extreme cases. You could also be required to alter/rebuild or reinstate, all of which will take time and money.

Hi, many thanks again for all the responses.

Sorry for the slow response - just went out to pick up the xmas tree!

I'll try to respond to all the points:

anna no, we're not a member but will check that out now. Thanks.

villa initial application was done online, yes.

bluntness when we moved in the chimney stack was in a dire condition (as indicated on our survey so we knew that was first important job). It has been replaced to look exactly like our neighbours (we're a row of three Georgian townhouses).
The initial application came back with simply asking for some more info (which DH discussed over the phone) so wasn't refused but also was granted IYSWIM.
We are trying to be as honest and open with our buyer as possible. I'm a natural worried so completely understand where they're coming from.

dino DH took samples of the old lime mortar and sent it away to specialist to get the exact right mix. He would never use concrete. He is very confident that materials used are spot on.
I don't think he thought he could get away without LBC, but meant to come back to it and didn't. Our house going on the market has been a sudden thing and not something we were expecting to do, just that our dream home came up.
And yes it's Grade 2.

Thanks again all.

natursl worrier

FGS natural worrier!

@Ladybythebeach shouldn't be a problem then. But.... Absolutely husband in (home made) dog house. He knew he should have consent in place BEFORE starting the works and that's the biggest issue here. No one who works in conservation would risk their reputation by working without consent. Hindsight is marvellous but as other posters have mentioned, it's not beyond councils to request that works get done over (at significant costs and time delays) where there's proof of applicants not following due process. Good luck with the Sale.

... Also... Your house is one of Three Georgian townhouses... Swoon. (wouldn't worry about the buyers... They'll wait! And if not, someone will DEFINATELY be along)

Thing is that the responsibility for unauthorised works doesn’t stay with the person who did it, it passes to the new owner.

I’d not touch a building which didn’t have the applicable consents. And I’d be even more cautious if the owner claimed to work in the industry but overlooked something so fundamental.

And I’d be even more cautious if the owner claimed to work in the industry but overlooked something so fundamental

I have to be honest, this is where I'm struggling with it. I was always told if someone agrees to work on a listed building without consent they are a cowboy and run a mile. And this is your husband's own home. And he was part way through the process, you couple that with a surveyor saying don't touch it due to the work been carried out, and most people would think something is very shonky here.

All you can do is get the consent, because it's never going to sell without it, until it's done, your husband has literally redendered it unsellable. If he has done it correctly then in is beyond mind boggling he didn't do this bit and then tried to sell it. Most people are going to assume he not done it correctly and he may even have damaged the structural integrity. So getting the consent is the only way forward.

PinkOboe I completely understand that any future issues would be our buyers problem and not ours and I would never ever intentionally do that to anyone. Know it appears odd, but we are truly honest people and are desperately trying to get it sorted.

bluntness I do agree with you and I would think the same. I know DH is well respected in his line of work and does know what he's doing - but what on earth was he thinking?! I know in the run up to the work starting (when he was completing the application) I was in and out of hospital so he was sorting out everything work/home/children etc but he's had plenty of time to get it sorted since then.

dino thanks for the little glimmer of positivity. I've been on the verge of tears all day.

Oh gosh, don't be upset by it, if the work really has been done as he said, then it's easily proven and it will get consent.

Hi,

Just wanted to give a quick update as appreciated you all taking the time to offer your opinions on Sunday.

DH went to meet with a planning officer today to discuss LBC application. She was pleased with contents and said photos show good workmanship etc. She couldn't see a problem with it all going through and it's now just a case of boxes being ticked. It's in the system so guess we'll have some correspondence about it soon.

I've emailed a better written version of the above to the estate agent and asked her to relay it to our buyer in the hope that this will help to reassure them.
We've also offered to reimburse initial search fees if for some reason the LBC doesn't get granted. It will, I'm just trying to show them that this was a silly oversight and we are not trying to pull a fast one.

I haven't heard anything yet but this was at lunchtime today.

When I spoke to the EA this morning (before the meeting) I was told buyer hasn't withdrawn their offer but very much feel like we're in limbo until they get back to us with their thoughts on this whole situation.

I'm prepared for bad news tomorrow and DH and I have just had a big row as I said I don't know how to not be angry with him about all this. I know he's trying to rectify though so I probably need to get over it.

Anyway, thanks again.

Good luck op, I'm sure it will come through and if your buyers have time to wait they will. I know that response would have made me happy.