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Original poster

Dream house - loft conversion with no building regs

55 replies

RollaCola84 · 02/12/2018 10:20

Hoping the MN collective can help me as Google is proving confusing. I'm house hunting and yesterday viewed my dream house, I had to stop myself making an offer in the car on the way home.

The house is listed as 3 bed with "loft space". The listing is open that this is being used as a 4th bedroom but can't be called one because it doesn't have building reg approval. I'm trying to work out what would be needed to get such approval, to see if that can be reflected in the price. Or whether I should just walk, sadly, away. Is it just fire doors or does the staircase have to be enclosed ? They've installed a new staircase from the landing that doubles back on itself straight into the loft room with no door at either end. The owners say they didn't want to fit fire doors as they thought they looked ugly, so they're well aware of the shortcomings.

I love the house but don't want to saddle myself with a massive problem in future. FWIW I'd be looking at using the loft as an office / hobby room not a bedroom.

OP posts:
Unihorn · 02/12/2018 10:21

I always thought it was a fire door and windows accessible to the fire brigade?

Original poster
RollaCola84 · 02/12/2018 10:23

That sounds familiar but I can't find " this is what a loft conversion needs" in bullets. Could fire doors be fitted to all other rooms if there's no separate door to the loft room, or does the loft room need a door ? That would need some sort of stud wall fitting from what they've done.

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Original poster
RollaCola84 · 02/12/2018 10:24

There's a full sized velux window at the back that an adult could climb out of if sufficiently inclined to do so.

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iknowimcoming · 02/12/2018 10:36

The house should be priced as if that room wasn't there, if it's not sort that out pronto - that bits quite straightforward. Building regs will need to be looked at by the council or a private company to be sure, but fire doors don't have to be ugly anymore- you can't tell them from regular doors except they're more expensive (have a look at them on Howdens website). You don't have to get Building regs done, but you will be pushing the problem away until you want to sell so weigh that up

MrsMiggel · 02/12/2018 10:45

Insulation, fire doors, electrical certificates, escape window at the permitted size and height from the floor, planning permission if it’s a listed building.

It’s worth checking whether it is possible to get permission for the loft conversion. The sellers must be aware it could put buyers off, so if it was easy to get permission surely they’d just get it? I have an “extra bedroom” which it would be impossible to get permission for because the height of the pitched roof outside means the window is higher than the legally permitted maximum height from the floor.

Original poster
RollaCola84 · 02/12/2018 10:59

iknowimcoming it is priced as a 3 bed, my point about price is if I need to pay for fire doors etc to get retrospective approval that I'd expect that to be reflected in an offer. I managed to find pretty fire doors in about 30 seconds on Google which made me worry that there was something bigger they weren't letting on to.

I'm inclined towards asking if they'd consider splitting the cost of getting reg approval.

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Original poster
RollaCola84 · 02/12/2018 11:01

MrsMiggel thanks. What I can't work out WRT fire doors is where. A fire door to the loft ? Or would fitting fire doors to all other internal doors when there isn't a door to the loft be ok.

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Bluntness100 · 02/12/2018 11:04

It can't be priced as a three bed and also priced so you can make it a four bed with no cost to yourself. That's a bit much.

They've priced it as a three bed and this seems fair. The extra room is a bonus, if you wish to bring it up to code it's fair you pay for it.

If they priced it as a four bed and then dropped the price by what was required to make it a four bed that would be fair, but not pricing it as a three bed then giving you the money to make it a four.

sdaisy26 · 02/12/2018 11:09

If it’s already priced as a 3 bed I can’t see what the problem is. You’re buying a 3 bed for the price of a 3 bed but with an extra useable room, which you could also work on to meet building regs and gain yourself the extra value of turning in to a 4 bed if you so wish.

It’s not like they’ve priced it as a 4 bed but it isn’t - in which case you’d be perfectly justified in asking them to reduce price to account for fact the 4th room doesn’t have building regs approval. Since it’s priced as a 3 bed already though you don’t really have any argument to make that the price should be reduced even further.

Original poster
RollaCola84 · 02/12/2018 11:15

sdaisy26 - the problem is, is it safe ? As it hasn't been signed off there's no confirmation the work has been done properly. This isn't me trying to get a 4 bed house on the cheap, the extra space is a bonus for me.

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Original poster
RollaCola84 · 02/12/2018 11:17

So is all the fire door stuff not necessary if the space isn't being used as a bedroom ? I'm not trying to be thick or cheeky, I've never had any experience with properties that have had work requiring planning permission or reg approval.

I don't want to get to a point of finding out that my bank won't lend or can't get insurance because the work hadn't been deemed safe.

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Bluntness100 · 02/12/2018 11:23

This is what your surveyor is for. And yes your posts are all about money, it comes across you are trying to get a four bed house for way less than the price of a three, becayse you want thr three bed price also reduced to make it a four.

You can ask, but most people would tell you to jog on. Your surveyor will tell you if it's safe. Otherwise you can ask a builder to go in and quote. But as this is priced like the room doesn't exist, then any move to make it a proper four should be at your expense, unless the rest of the building is unsafe

VittysCardigan · 02/12/2018 11:25

I would be concerned if it has not been inspected at all. If no inspections have been carried out the structural integrity/insulation/electrical works are all unknown.

NC4Now · 02/12/2018 11:31

I have a similar set up. I got a quote to make it into an extra bedroom with plans, certificates etc and it came in at just under £20k.
You need a fire door to the loft, insulation, flooring etc. But as it is priced as a 3 bed, treat it as a 3 bed and if you want to do a loft conversion, spend the money - it will add value.
If not, you have some very useful space, but you can’t sell it as a bedroom.

BigFishFace · 02/12/2018 11:35

We have a similar issue in a house we’re looking at. Everything seems to meet building regs so am now worried about structural integrity including joists? Do these need to be strengthened?

Bluntness100 · 02/12/2018 11:39

Again your surveyor will tell you if this is something to be concerned about and if it needs further investigation.

This is why you have surveys.

Karwomannghia · 02/12/2018 11:40

When we had our loft conversion we had to have fire doors throughout the whole house. There is one at the top of the stairs into the loft bedroom and into the loft en-suite and all changed downstairs too. There are French doors in the loft too. The fire doors are to prevent the spread of fire, they’re very dense but fit in well with our 30s house. The house you’re interested in is already be priced as a 3 bed rather than 4 bed so I doubt you’ll be able to negotiate money off for that. It’s not a huge deal, you can live in it as it is as many houses are like that built pre regs or you can make the adjustments to satisfy the regs for extra safety. There is also a minimum head height.

MrsMiggel · 02/12/2018 11:42

It’s not just the loft which requires a fire door. You have to provide a protected escape route so all doors on the stairway need fire doors, upstairs and downstairs. Some councils will make you board the stairway with fire resistant plaster board too.

The rules apply if the loft is a habitable room, ie not just used for storage. So using the loft as a lounge or hobby room would count. It doesn’t have to be a bedroom specifically.

Original poster
RollaCola84 · 02/12/2018 11:45

bluntness100 yes but to get to the point of surveys you have to reach an acceptable offer. Also who wants to go through the time, expense and disappointment if it can be sorted out beforehand.

All I'm trying to find out is what the legal requirements are for loft conversion (and specifics not "a fire route") and if that differs if it's it's being used as a bedroom or not. If you think my posts are all about money fine, I think it's about working out what is legal, safe and what is needed to get to that point.

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Original poster
RollaCola84 · 02/12/2018 11:46

Thanks MrsMiggel that's really helpful about inhabited rooms. I'm going to try and speak to my LA Building Control on Monday.

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frogintheTyne · 02/12/2018 11:46

My house is like this.

When we sell it, it will be listed as 3 bedrooms with loft space.

We did the loft conversion as close to all building regs as possible, but it will never meet them because the ceiling is 1cm too low. We strengthened the joists, put in a proper floor, its insulated and has fire escape windows.

Personally, I think the benefits of having that extra space with a fixed stair will appeal to people looking for value for money.

What the buyer does with the loft space ( use it as an extra bedroom, playroom, office, yoga space) is up to them. Officially though it is just loft space.

Original poster
RollaCola84 · 02/12/2018 11:48

VittysCardigan Precisely. Because it has no approval I don't know what, if anything has been done to determine that the work was done properly and safely.

I'm looking for 3 bed houses and found this because that's how it's listed, the extra space is a bonus that I could use. I'm not trying to stiff anyone on getting a 4 bed on the cheap but if the current owners have done conversion work on the cheap that may cost me money later than I want to know.

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Original poster
RollaCola84 · 02/12/2018 11:50

frogintheTyne Does if affect your borrowing or insurance or do you just not list it ? Thanks for the response, very helpful. Headroom looks fine here but obviously don't know about joists etc.

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bilbodog · 02/12/2018 11:50

I think as well as the safety aspects the floor may have needed to be strengthened to be a proper room. I think you need to take a view - as long as it has been priced as a 3 bed then you are not overpaying - then it can be up to you if you want to make it into a proper 4 th bedroom when you move in. You could get a proper loft conversion co to quote for the changes that would need to be made.