Talk to me about door knobs!

[mazzamoo123]

We’ve just renovated our house and the final thing I want to change is our door knobs. It is a 1930’s house with original 1 over 3 panelled doors. The previous owners swapped all the knobs for brass handles and I don’t like them so I want to swap back to knobs. The orIgnal escutcheons remain on some doors and these seem to be a browny black wood material. I could keep them or not...

So do I get ceramic, porcelain or iron knobs?? And do I go black? That’s my instinct but maybe white is nicer? Doors are all white. As for latches, locks and everything else, i’m hoping my builder will help!

Any advice would be helpful as I am lost in a sea of knob confusion. Thanks!

Are they bakelite escutcheons? Could go with antique bakelite knobs too. ivory is nicer than black / brown.

Thanks @Millstone. The problem with bakelight is that they’re v expensive! Even on Ebay. I forgot to mention, we have no money left!! What are bakelight knobs made of? Good advice re. colour - thank you!

Bakelite is a type of plastic. In our old early 1930s house with one over three doors, the original wooden knobs operated rim locks. I restored the locks and keeps that were left by stripping the layers of paint off and oiling the spring mechanisms inside the locks. I bought some replacements on eBay as some of the locks had been replaced. I used wood dye on the door knobs to even out the colour and a couple of coats of matt varnish.

Thanks @wowfudge. I’m going to try using the same latches and just replace the handles (sadly no restoring of those possible - they’re all shiny bronze levers!) but just wondering what material the new handles I buy should be... porcelain? Ceramic? Iron? So confusing - looking for the best value but attractive option!

Buy what you like best - also depends what finishes the light switches, etc. are. I.e. it makes sense to match those if they are all brass for example. If they are white plastic then just choose what you prefer.

These are ours. They are the originals (could do with a little tlc). Think our house is late 1920's -1930's but not exactly sure. I don't personally think they are that beautiful but I wouldn't dream of changing them.

Ah yes @babyboyHarrison that’s what i’m after! So what would be the best replica? Not sure iron would give the same look.

Thanks for the pics!

Ours are definitely wood but so dark it looks almost black. The brass could do with some cleaning up as previous owners have not been very careful with their painting.

Probably work seeing if there are any reclamation yards anywhere close to you.

Worth not work

We are missing a few of the wooden things that cover the keyholes but amazingly we have a working key

Those look like ebonised wood. Salvage places that have old doors are a good place to look as well as eBay. You can probably get reproduction ones too.

please show us some photos of what you currently have. Including the edge of the door where the latch or lock is, or was.

Show the door, closed, from both sides, showing both door and frame, with something to show scale.

Measure the distance from the centre of the spindle to the edge of the door. This is important.

How large is the house?

Pigletjohn and wowfudge...... I will bid a hasty retreat as far more knowledgeable people than me are assisting.

Have a look at Turnstyle. They do wonderful door handles, but you might need to save up. They have designs that are perfect for a 1930s house. I would have nickel and I love the “beehive” styles.

@PigletJohn sorry for delayed response - a sickness bug took hold of one of my kids!

Here are some pics and measurements - they may not be enough as I was rushing out of the door but I can send more this evening if needed...

Measurements:

1. Backset 5.5cm Thickness of door 3.5cm (needs bathroom lock)
2. Backset 11.5cm Thickness of door 3.5cm
3. Backset 12cm Thickness of door 4.5cm
4. Backset 6cm Thickness of door 3.5cm (needs bathroom lock)

And no.4...

Doors are being rubbed down and painted!!

OP I think that photo 2 with a surface mounted rim lock shows what all doors would have been like originally. The others have been adapted with a lock fitted into the door.

Can you post some photos of the door edges showing the locks fitted into the doors?

Thanks @wowfudge

I can send pics of edges later - sorry, I didn’t have time this morning! So late for work!

I’d be happy for them all to look like pic 2

As for knobs...

You can have knobs on all but door 1, because the backset is small, you would bang your knuckles on the doorframe.

If you like the rimlocks, you can keep these, though they are made quite economically so may be worn and a bit rattly. You can take them off to strip and repaint, they will look better. You can get new springs for the latch. They are still made in a similar style, but check the dimensions very carefully as replacements may not be an exact fit.

Here are some examples.

The knobsets for rimlocks are not the same as for mortice locks and latches, because one side is screwed to the door, and the other is pulled against the lock case by the spindle.

Here's an example. You could probably use other knobs if the knob is retained on the spindle with a grubscrew and is not "permanently" attached to the rose.

If you want to add a new latch to a door that does not already have one, you can fit a tubular mortice latch, they are available in large backsets similar to your existing rimlocks. This one is good quality and has a nice action and a good strong spring. Altro make a wide range of sizes and colours. They also make a matching [[https://www.ironmongerydirect.co.uk/search?SearchText=bathroom+deadbolt bathroom mortice deadbolt that can be operated by a thumbturn and emergency release. These are quite useful for bedroom privacy.

Tubular latches and bolts are fitted by drilling a hole into the edge of the door, which is easier and weakens it less than cutting out a big mortice.

p.s.

depending on size and grandness of your house, some of the doors (e.g. main reception leading off the hall) might originally have had mortice locks and flashy handles, while the kitchen and servants quarters (!) may have had the more economical pressed rimlocks. When this is done you may also find that size of skirting, picture rail, ceiling plasterwork etc is more impressive in the grander rooms.

p..s.

if you photograph the lock fore-end on the edge of the door, and they key; or, better, take out the mortice lock and photograph it, I can offer an opinion on whether it is original to the house. 1930's is not actually to my taste, so I'm not good at choosing suitable knobs and handles.

I thought @babyboyHarrison keyhole escutcheon was called "dolly" style, but I can't see them listed. There is one called "beehive" that is similar but not the same.

Thanks so much, @PigletJohn.

I’m so ignorant so please forgive these basic questions...

1. If I want to put a knob on doors 1 and 3, with no rim lock, what do I need to buy? Two knobs on a spindle and a tubular latch? What size does the latch need to be?

1. If I want to put a traditional rim lock on door 4, do I need knobs, spindle, tubular latch and rim lock?

1. If I put a smaller knob on door 1 would I be able to have a knob and rim lock or is the backset still too small? If so, i guess I need a lever and then a tubular latch and some kind of lock (as you suggest). Is there a more traditional option? I like to pretend to myself that my urban 1930’s semi is actually a rustic Victorian cottage in the country :)

1 An ordinary pair of knobs, and a tubular latch. Choose a backset that is fairly close to the backset of your other locks and it will look matching. The backset is always less than the depth of the latch or lock case.

2 Rimlock, and rimlock knobs. No tubular latch needed if you buy a rimlock that includes a latch.

3 doesn't that door already have a lock in it? If so you just need new handles. If you want a knob you will need a deeper lock (which will be difficult to fit and will damage the tenon in the door) or a long tubular latch. You mat be able to fit a knob on the side of the door that is flush with the wall. Usually the inside.

You will need one keyhole escutcheon for each rimlock, to go on the outside of the door. The lock is fitted on the inside of the room.

p.s.

you can try an oval knob and see if that's any good for your knuckles.