Building work: how bad will it be?

[MyCatIsAFiend]

So we are planning to extend our house in the near future and I'm just trying to get a sense of how long it might take and how bad it might be?

It's a 30s 3-bed semi and the rough plan is something like this:

• build rear extension.
• reinstate wall between living room and dining room.
• turn dining room into kitchen.
• turn old galley kitchen into loo and utility. Will involve bricking up an external door and putting in a wall.
• rebuild stairs to make them less of a death trap and give more space in hall.
• remove chimney breast in current dining room and bedroom above.

It's going to be bad, right?!

We have been told that for the actual extension, it would take six to eight weeks - but my concern is about all the remodelling inside.

Anyone done anything similar?

Are you extending across the back to give a dining kitchen?

The things that make a mess are removing existing walls, chimney breasts, ceiling, etc as the dust gets everywhere and takes forever to settle. Also plastering is filthy and if the builder and his sub contractor treat it like a building site and mix plaster and dot and dab adhesive inside, that's another layer of muck. Do you need to remove the chimney breasts? If your room proportions are good to start with they can work in your new layout.

The idea is that the back end of the current living dining room will become the new kitchen, with the extension providing a big dining room/family room area.

My concern is that if we go for the straightforward option of the extension being the kitchen-diner, we risk the back end of the existing living/dining room becoming a bit of a thoroughfare/extension of the hall and a bit of a nothing room/waste of space. But my concern about the current plan is that it might not be as easy to chat to whoever is doing the cooking, etc. Not sure what the best option is!

I'm in two minds about the chimney breast. It could be that we take the kitchen through into the extension to span both rooms in some way, which would mean not removing the chimney breast. But it would create a bigger space and would also create more space upstairs in the bedroom.

As you can see, we're still at the ideas stage!

Can you sketch the ideas and post them? Would love to see what you have in mind.

Ok, here goes!

So this is the existing floor plan.

Plan A was to put an extension to the rear, convert the existing galley kitchen into a loo and utility (the loo coming off the hall, the utility coming out of the new kitchen, ie the door would be about where the window currently is. We might also rebuild the wall between the living and dining ends of that room to create a separate sitting room at the front.

Advantages: minimal disruption to the rest of the house (ie we could live there while work ongoing). Nice big kitchen-diner.

Disadvantages: it risks the back end of the current living-dining room becoming wasted space and a bit of a thoroughfare. Though I have ambitions for a piano and/or a desk there.

Plan B is more ambitious. It involves putting a single-storey extension on the back and using this as a family room-dining room. We would then reinstate the wall between the current living and dining areas of the living-dining room. The rear end of this room would become the new kitchen. The loo and utility would come out of the existing galley kitchen, the loo opening into the hall and the utility into the kitchen (so putting a door in what is currently the wall between the kitchen and dining room end). We would also consider removing the chimney breast at the rear of the house, both upstairs and downstairs to create more space.

Advantages: the kitchen is then at the heart of the house and we don't end up with dead/wasted space. It makes good use of the light and garden view for sitting.

Disadvantages: much more disruptive and messy to do. I have concerns about light levels in the kitchen and also about whether it would feel like the kitchen was a bit separate from the dining area - I'm keen that others can sit and chat with whoever is cooking.

Thoughts?! Would love to hear from people who have remodelled a house with this sort of floor plan. But would generally welcome ideas on which would be best to live with and easier to sell, when we eventually do move on.

We did something fairly similar, extension became kitchen/diner, old kitchen loo/utility.
We were told 10 to12 weeks for everything, took nearly a year! This seems to be fairly standard for builders time frames and we were very lucky not to have any major hold ups due to weather.
The messy bits are knocking holes in things and ripping stuff out, I didn't find the plastering too bad, although that seems to be generally messy.
If you can avoid removing the chimney breast I probably would, as it's a lot of mess and expense for not much extra space. Everything else it's unlikely to make much difference which end you put the kitchen/ diner, although connecting utilities and waste pipes might be easier to do in the new bit, rather than running into the existing dining room (depending what the current layout and access is like).

Interesting! A year, you say?! That's bad. We've been told everything from six weeks to four months.

Did you have the wasted space scenario that I'm concerned about at the rear end of the living room? What did you do with the space?

I second not touching chimney breast, you need a steel to hold up the chimney breast upstairs and the actual chimney and it's expensive and unbelievably messy. Our 8 week build is going into 6 months. No major issues but hugely underestimating the amount of time each task took on the part of the builder. You will effectively need to seal off the downstairs of the house and live only upstairs while the work downstairs is being done. Even better if the builders can access from outside and not traipse through the front door. The amount of dust and the effort to get rid of it cannot be underestimated. And if you have small DC there will be dangers with tools and holes and trip hazards everywhere.
Also add time for all the extras that the builder won't do such as flooring, decorating, kitchen fitting etc. I'd go with the bigger project though, if you're goibg through the expense and the upheaval then go for the better option in the long run.

It will never be 6 weeks and I’d be amazed if it’s even 4 months. We did a small project where we took out an internal wall and put in a joist and turned a window into double doors ( another joist ) and put a kitchen in the new space.

So just the downstairs back of the house affected . And we closed it all off so the builders had access from outside only.

Took 4 months .

I wonder why they give such low estimates when they're not able to complete the work within that time? I don't dispute what you're saying at all because I'd expected months - and that's assuming to a plaster finish and getting everything else done afterwards. My parents insist their double height extension was finished within five weeks in the 1990s, which is not helping.

Which do people think seems like a better use of the available space, A or B?

I have no idea why builders give utterly unrealistic time estimates, in my experience it means they're also likely to start 6 months later than planned, as the previous project is over running!
In terms of the options, you need to think about how you'll use the space. When you're cooking where do you picture everyone sitting? What direction will the light come in? Our layout was mainly designed around getting a south facing skylight in the kitchen/ diner. Can you picture yourself serving up food this way round or that way round? Have a really good think about how you'll move through the space and who's likely to sit where while you're doing it.

They're all trying to juggle 5 jobs at once and that applies to all the trades too. They also don't project manage things so plumber will turn up and tiler hasn't done his part because joiner hasn't done his. Joiner on another job for a week then tiler booked up then parts plumber ordered not there and...ad nauseum. The delays of a week here and there really add up. The builder himself doesn't seem to understand all the dependencies and swans in and out leaving a wake of furious trades who think they're being done over. I have never witnessed so many middle aged men tantrums in my life!

We've done this in a similar style house. This is what we did

And here

Ours was different in that chimney breast was between the kitchen and dining room. It was awful. Not just dust but best part of 100 yrs worth of soot etc. Everything was black. For what you'll gain in taking yours out, I wouldn't do it.

The drawings are nowhere near scale but it really works for us, contrary to drawing (art not my forte!) we have masses of space and it makes entertaining really fun. As you can see we blocked up the entrance to the kitchen from the hall to get the utility in, the door into the utility room from the kitchen is a pocket door (using the traditional 30s door we have everywhere else) - brilliant use of space.

Ours was part of a 2 storey extension and various remodelling upstairs too - it took about 7 months.

I think builders typically say 6-8 weeks, it just falls out of their mouths!
It will be so worth it op, we had similar done in 4 months and it could have easily been much quicker if the builders hadn’t of been working on other projects at the same time. I’d do what you said except when reinstating the wall between the living and dining rooms I’d make the living part a bit bigger but you might not want to do that because of the doorway.

Some interesting ideas here! @PizzaPlanet, you're right - we can't make the sitting room bigger because of the doorways.

Interesting that the general consensus is to leave the chimney breasts intact. I know we would need steels if we did it and that would add to the cost.

Did any of you move out during the build or did you stay put? I'm keen for us to stay in if at all possible (maybe moving out for a week or two here and there) but it obviously depends on how much work is done.

I can't decide whether we should go for the light kitchen but risk wasting space in what is currently the rear of the living dining room, or whether to put the kitchen there but it potentially feel a bit more separate....

We didn't move out simply because we couldn't afford it, but it was hard work. If you leave the chimney breast, upstairs won't change so you can escape up there. I'd put furniture etc in storage and maybe see if you can go on holiday / stay with a relative for a week or two when they break through existing outside walls from extension.

We stayed, the builders were able to put the new kitchen in before starting to take the old kitchen apart, so it was fairly civilised most of the time. We stayed away a couple of nights when the water was off to do some pipe moving, but that was all.