Homemade buyers report asks if Chimney breast removal was done according to regs

[CjScat]

Buying a house and the home buyers report states that behind the lovely kitchen units and fully tiled wall a chimney breast has been removed to give more space.
He report states that this may or may not have been done according to building regulations and if not supported correctly the wall may fall.
The report suggests a structural engineer be instructed to check this out. This would surely require the removal of fitted unit, oven ,work surfaces and tiles.
I have asked the solicitor to ask the vendor if the removal was done during their time in the property.
Any tips would be gratefully received.

If it was done correctly, the vendor should be able to produce a building regulations completion certificate for the work. The existence of such a certificate will also be referred to in the local authority search results.

If the work was done prior to the vendors ownership there should still be a certificate in existence from whenever moment in time the work was carried out, if it was done correctly.

Years ago when selling a very old house I had the same question from the buyer's solicitor. Said something about me buying some sort of insurance policy if I couldn't provide evidence.

I told them I hadn't had it done, had no idea about building regs and I would not be paying for a structural survey. Nor would I be paying for an insurance policy and the buyer could piss off.

Never heard anymore about it and buyer still bought the house.

I think they can check by looking under the floorboards of the room above - they would be looking for a supporting RSJ or something I think.

Indemnity insurance is the one seller need to buy. Not expensive though. The house we are selling having the same issue, however the work was done by the previous owner and we did not request the insurance cover at the time (7years ago). It has been 7 years since we had the house and no issues regarding the job, so I guess it would be fine. We are selling our house at the moment and the survey is due soon, so we shall find out. Finger crossed.

Our house that we've just bought has had the chimney breast removed from ground and first floors (terraced house, against the party wall). There's no certificate, but it was done in 1980 so we just presumed that if it was going to fall, it would have fallen by now!

To be fair, when a 3 bed, 1100 square foot house with attic conversion, two storey rear extension and new Ikea kitchen only costs £78k (in the cheap part of a cheap part of another cheap part of West Yorkshire), then you don't worry about too much. Amusingly, the insured rebuild cost is £200k - which would be enough to buy the whole row of four properties...

The (fairly basic) survey missed the chimney breast amusingly (I spotted it though), but it did pick up on the 13 year old double glazing needing a certificate (which the vendors had lost). We just bought an indemnity policy for £30, job done.

The loft conversion and extension have no paperwork, but they date back to 1980 (the vendor's Grandfather built them, and built them well as my Dad said when he checked them out - ex builder), but the fact that they've been built so long means they don't need planning permission or building regs. Around here it's incredibly common for houses to have paperwork-free extensions from 40 years ago!

I remember my dad knocking down a supporting wall with chimney breast 1980 and even then wondering how the house would stay up. I thin it was quite common then!

The vendor has explained to the estate agent that a local builder to removed and caped the chimney breast in about 1979. He says the chimney stack was reprinted when he had a new roof in 2003.

Well it's still standing nearly 40 years on, so I wouldn't bother worrying about it!

To be honest that’s what I am beginning to think too.
The vendor has lived there for 45 years and had the chimney removed 42 years ago and it hasn’t collapsed in all that time so.

We bought similar - downstairs chimney breast removed in the kitchen before previous owners bought it, no building regs.
We paid for indemnity insurance and plan on removing the upstairs portion and supporting the stack (we want to put an upstairs bathroom in so it makes sense to remove this chimney breast anyway, although I am retaining the one in the living room and master bedroom as I usually try and keep period features).
I'm not very worried about it falling down, apart from if I or my adjoining neighbours start knocking holes in walls or otherwise stressing the structural integrity.

Thanks for the advice everyone. It all seems a bit overwhelming sometimes trying to decide on best action or whether to leave alone.
There are several artex ceilings too that the report says may or may not contain traces of asbestos and 2 areas of wall that look and smell fine but gave significantly high moisture readings apparently.
I really love the house and don’t want to run any risk of losing it so really want to crack on with the sale...it’s just to decide what to follow up on the things the report highlights.

You could try offering a lower amount based on the survey issues, if it's an affordability issue? I think our chimney breast plus surveyor etc (neighbours won't just sign a party wall agreement unfortunately, we are semi-detached) is going to be about £2.5k in total if that helps.

There is a big difference beteeen an unsupported chimney stack causing problems and actually falling down, which is the extreme end of the problem. Ask for an indemnity insurance and hopefully the seller won’t tell you to go away! It’s reasonable to ask for this and you should also find out how the load of the chimney stack is being supported. Believe it or not, inappropriately altered structures do go wrong and age doesn’t make them safer. The opposite quite often.

Indemnity insurance covers the cost of any legal enforcement action for lack of BR approval, which after this length of time is simply not going to happen.

Should it be the case that the chimney stack is inadequately supported, then indemnity insurance is not going to be of any use.

If it's been the way it is for 40 years the chances are you've nothing to worry about. An indemnity insurance policy is going to be a total waste of money for whoever has to pay for it.

Is the stack definitely still there? Our house has a breast removed downstairs, it’s still there in the upstairs bedroom but then disappears again in the attic. I spent many sleepless nights worrying about the stack between exchange and completion but as soon as we bought I realised it was fine as the stack was gone !

Mildura

Indemnity insurance covers the cost of any legal enforcement action for lack of BR approval, which after this length of time is simply not going to happen.

Should it be the case that the chimney stack is inadequately supported, then indemnity insurance is not going to be of any use.

If it's been the way it is for 40 years the chances are you've nothing to worry about. An indemnity insurance policy is going to be a total waste of money for whoever has to pay for it.

Absolutely! Indemnity insurance is the latest con and a licence to print money.

Hopefully things will work out fine for you but I can't help feeling sad about all these removed chimneys, I guess that is why you don't see so many coal delivery trucks around these days.

Our whole chimney breast was taken out and is supported in the loft. If it's not upstairs also, could you check under the floorboards?

I'm sure it's fine though. You can take indemnity insurance for this kind of stuff if not.

I spend my professional life dealing with badly altered buildings and can confirm that things do indeed go wrong.

The most common issue I've had with poor chimney breast removal is that the original (poor) work is OK until the neighbour removes the other side of the breast - common in terrace houses where the chimneys are back to back. This leaves a serious structural issue as the single skin left between the houses is not enough to support the remainder of two chimneys.

I would be looking for more information - you may be able to check from above without butchering the kitchen, lifting a floorboard would reveal either gallows brackets or a steel. If it is gallows brackets this is OK only if the neighbour hasn't also removed theirs with gallows brackets.

Also look and see how far up the breast has been removed? Is there a breast in the room above? If not, it will be supported in the loft somewhere and should be easy to see.

Sorry - that should say you can remove both breasts as long as they are supported with a steel. You can't remove both using only gallows brackets.

You can take indemnity insurance for this kind of stuff if not
But it's entirely pointless, and serves no purpose in this particular situation.

Thank you for the wonderful advise.
The room above the kitchen is the bedroom. It has hand crafted and fitted wardrobes across the wall were the chimney breast should be therefore it must have been removed as well as the downstairs portion.
So maybe as mentioned investigations made in the loft will help answer a few questions.
Worryingly after I have spent almost £1000 in surveys and solicitor fees I had word yesterday that the vendors intended to pull out of the sale. The original plan was to go into a rented property but they are now waiting for a new build to be completed.
I’ve offered to wait to get my dream home, but haven’t heard back from them yet...fingers crossed !
A few months ago a house fell through leaving me £900 out of pocket...didn’t realise how stressful getting a house could be!