Reducing offer after survey?

[Bellatrix257]

We are FTB and had an offer accepted soon after house came on market for just 2% under asking- we had originally been keen to get a bargain but we didn’t want to mess around when this one came in as we thought it was in very good condition and DP is so fussy and he really liked it (our offer is a lot higher than most recently sold house so I’m a bit resentful but I think this reflects the condition and slightly larger room sizes, and we didn’t want to lose the house). The seller specifically said as they were hoping for full asking price they will not reduce the price after survey. We agreed to this but said if something very serious and urgent were to come up we would ask for a reduction.

A few things came up in survey and I’m wondering whether this might warrant us asking for £1000 ish off our offer dependant on trade quotes, or whether you think after they specifically said they would not reduce, we’d be wasting our time and risk offending them. (We are absolutely maxing out for this house so had hoped that we’d need no urgent repairs - it’s an old house so we expect to pay maintainence over the years but after we move in we will have very little spare cash so any reduction will be helpful)

These are the repairs listed in survey that came back urgent (level 3):

The ones I’m worried about:

• defective bay window flat roof needs replaced or repaired

-‘the ground level adjoining walls to the rear elevation is too high and not the required 150mm below the damp proof course level. In addition the original air bricks may possibly have been covered over. Consequently, the rear living room does not appear to be properly ventilated. The ground levels should be reduced; and surfaces relaid as necessary. The sub floor ventilation provision should also be improved’

The ones that probably aren’t a big deal:

• blocked drain (sorry if I’m being stupid and that’s a very easy fix)
• no fire alarm or CO alarm
• no safety or toughened glass in some of the windows so they need replaced (don’t have children yet so would probably do this before children)
• no safety certificates for any services but hopefully lawyer will sort that out

The market valuation came back exactly the same as our offer (which is strange as it was right to the £100 so I wonder if they always just put the offer unless it’s way off?)

Thanks so much for any advice!!

I wouldn't want them to get annoyed for that amount of money. How would you feel if you lost the house for £1000 if they refused to sell it to you?

Yes where does the £1000 figure come from, doesn't seem a huge amount to fix the two issues mentioned - depending on how big the bay window flat roof is?

You are probably not in a brilliant negotiating position as if it's really only £1k 's worth of issues then you'd stand to lose more than that if the sale fell through (presumably the survey itself cost most of a grand plus all the search fees and solicitors costs you will already have paid out?). But on the other hand the seller probably stands to lose out by around that much or more as well if the sale and their subsequent purchase falls through so it might be worth a punt?

In my (admittedly) limited experience every survey finds at least a couple of urgent issues that need to be fixed, even in a relatively modern property never mind something older, so if these are small things you may have got away quite lightly!

I disagree - ALWAYS go back after a survey. I am astounded at the reluctance to negotiate here in the UK - it's your money you're spending - don't spend too much! We went back to our vendor after our survey and said given x, y and z we would like to amend our offer to...They asked to see the appropriate sections of the survey and came back meeting us half way. A vendor is just as vested in selling at this point and won't want to lose you as a qualified, serious buyer. Definitely go back to them - all they can do is say no. What's the point in having a survey if you don't act on the findings before exchange?

I have no idea how much the two issues might cost- do you think it might be more than £1000? Was going to get some tradespeople to take a look, thanks!

-‘the ground level adjoining walls to the rear elevation is too high and not the required 150mm below the damp proof course level. In addition the original air bricks may possibly have been covered over. Consequently, the rear living room does not appear to be properly ventilated. The ground levels should be reduced; and surfaces relaid as necessary. The sub floor ventilation provision should also be improved’

Doesn't sound cheap at all.

We needed the chimney and alarm system repaired which the vendor has agreed to do in addition to lowering the price.

I though level 3 was not urgent and level 1 was urgent?

Surely it depends on if the house was priced with those things already taken into consideration?

For example a house that needed re-roofing would be priced accordingly, not at the price it would be if it had already been re-roofed?

*- blocked drain (sorry if I’m being stupid and that’s a very easy fix)

• no fire alarm or CO alarm
• no safety or toughened glass in some of the windows so they need replaced (don’t have children yet so would probably do this before children)
• no safety certificates for any services but hopefully lawyer will sort that out*

If this a privately owned and occupied house then there is no legal requirement for toughened or safety glass (my ds survived without it in any of the houses we have lived in since he was born and he is now almost 23); no legal requirement to have a smoke alarm or Carbon Monoxide alarm; and no requirement at all for safety certificates for any services - I presume you mean the wiring and the gas? All you can reasonably ask is when the boiler was last serviced, and the wiring installed.

You can buy smoke detectors and carbon monoxide detectors from Amazon - no biggie. Safety/toughened glass if it's for front door glazing then perhaps, but that's your choice to pay for it for other things. I would show you the last boiler service and chimney being swept stuff, but wouldn't be producing safety certificates.

I'd ask about the flat roof to the bay, but depending on how old the house is, it may never have had a DPC anyway.

When we were purchasing, our surveyor for the mortgage company came in £4000 below what we had offered (asking price).

As we couldn't afford to finance the £4000 ourselves we went back to the buyer with the full survey results and they agreed to the lower figure.

Unless you are happy to over-fund, definitely go back

pastabest very rarely - often the owner/vendor has no clue to what issues exist with their house until a buyer shares the survey with them. Most people price based on similar properties in the area without knowing which has or hasn't any structural issues.

Instead of reducing the offer ask the vendor to fix the bay and sort out the ventilation and ground level issue. Also tell them to get the drains unblocked. Everything else is minor and you can sort after sale. If they aren't prepared to do the work then lower your offer?

I think what pastabest meant was that some houses are priced right at the top end of the market value as they have recently been refurbished or are in very good decorative order (and therefore should need no major work done) whereas others are clearly fixer-uppers and need loads doing and are priced accordingly. You wouldn't normally expect to negotiate a discount on the latter if the survey revealed issues unless it's something really bad like subsidence. Whereas it's a bit unclear what the etiquette is for the former if actually under the good decorative order there are some serious problems. But as ToBeClear says we are oddly reticent about negotiating in this country and worried about offending- the system is set up to allow this so as a buyer I would be inclined to do so...

Either way I would (both as a buyer and seller) much prefer to negotiate a sensible discount on the price if there are problems than ask the seller to fix things in advance of sale (unless it is very easy stuff like unblocking the drain or getting a certificate of works completed). For a start the delay this could cause (it would probably take 8-12 weeks to get a decent builder in to do significant works in my part of the world), also there's no particular motivation for the seller to ensure a thorough job is done so you'd worry about corners being cut. And it would be both costly and difficult for the buyer to seek recompense if it turns out there are further problems after the sale completes. Just my opinion though!

Maxelly unfortunately quite often a refurbished property has more hidden issues than a fixer upper - shoddy workmanship or safety issues/building code can always be concealed cosmetically, and is exactly what a survey should be exposing. Of course there are always minor issues like adding CO detectors etc... but the level of a floor seems pretty major to me and an issue that the vendor may not even be aware of...

It depends if the house actually has a damp proof course, or whether the surveyor assumes it should do. Most old houses won't and if they do, they shouldn't so the ground level could be entirely irrelevant.

We are FTB and had the same situation.

Main points for concern (not all of them though) on our survey were:

-Damp in the middle room
-chimney(s) need re-pointing and/or re-building as they are both bulging
-lintel needs investigating and potentially replacing
-rendering at the rear of the property needs bringing up
-No safety certificates
-No working smoke alarm

We paid £100 for an electrician and £60 for a gas fitter to sort the safety certificates out. It isn't the vendor responsibility (as we found out) unless you are renting and they are a landlord.

We got a quote for damp proofing course and subsequently asked the estate agents to revise the offer for £1300 (to cover just the damp proofing course as that's how much we have been quoted) and the vendor has said he will pay half of it (£650). We tried to re-negotiate and explain that we are paying for the rest of the issues to be resolved (chimney, rendering etc) but the estate agents wouldn't speak to the vendor the second time as he apparently had already said that if that £650 wasn't enough, he would pull out of the sale and put the property on the rental market.

We have accepted the reduced amount because he is leaving pretty much all the fixtures and fittings (and all the white goods) which will save us a fortune in the long run.

I think when they mark it as a 3, it's stuff that they need to make you aware of, and it's up to you how urgently you do them. It's basically so that you can't go back in 6 months time and tell them that they didn't warn you about damp etc. It's the surveyors reputation and name on the line if you sue them in a few months because they haven't pointed it out. Also, if they think a property isn't worth what you have offered, they will tell you. If they think it is worth it then they will always put the asking price/offer price on the paperwork.

You can only ask the EA to contact the vendor and ask the question. They might drop the price, or they might refuse. Either way, if you don't ask you won't know.
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It is standard for a survey to say that an area of flat roof will fail in/over time - I had to ring one up to see which area of flat roof he meant in one of our surveys and it was a bay window. So if the survey said something similar, it doesn't necessarily mean it is leaking or unsafe at the moment.

The damp proof course may depend on the age of the property but that one would be worth looking in to.

After similar advice from the other side... Any help appreciated (OP you can see how your vendors feel)

Our buyers, who saw our property 4 times before offering, came again a couple of weeks ago. They now say they noticed some cracks in the lounge which weren't picked up on the Homebuyers Report and they want us to pay for a structural survey! They also want us to pay for electrical and gas safety checks. The electrical one will probably fail.
We are paying for an electrical safety check on our new property.
They said if any insurmountable problems arise they will refund the costs.
I am thinking of saying that as a gesture of goodwill we will do the gas and electrics but if they want a structural survey they can pay. What do you think?

samanthalou NEVER believe the EA in this situation- don't forget they have skin in the game to get the sale done at the highest price so will fob you off with all sorts of stories from the vendor like telling you he'll rent it instead. Realistically an EA would never encourage a vendor to rent instead of taking a lower offer...

OK so we have just had a quote to fix the exact same problem that you have here:
-‘the ground level adjoining walls to the rear elevation is too high and not the required 150mm below the damp proof course level. In addition the original air bricks may possibly have been covered over. Consequently, the rear living room does not appear to be properly ventilated. The ground levels should be reduced; and surfaces relaid as necessary. The sub floor ventilation provision should also be improved’
The quote (not going into details, but to fix the problem and make good damaged floorboards, which you will probably have also as a result of ongoing damp) is over £2000. So I think you could reasonably negotiate on this.

Thanks everyone!

@3in4years I think it’s very strange they’d ask for a full structural!! Maybe ask to see the homebuyers survey- ours said cracks were just cosmetic and there had been historical movement because it’s an old house but nothing to worry about. They are probably just cosmetic too- is it an old house? If it was anything to worry about surely the homebuyers would have picked up on it and said it needs further investigation! Nice that you are paying for an electrical survey etc!

@Mijkl that is very useful thank you!! Was it literally exactly the same wording? The survey didn’t actually pick up on any damp but it was dry weather when inpected and for long beforehand .. is yours actually damp currently?

@samanthalou thank you that’s super useful! That’s good you got a bit of a reduction- had the valuation came back the same as your offer?

Good luck with the rest of your purchase!!

If there was a lot of interest in the house, and your below asking price offer was accepted quickly after it went on the market strictly on the condition that no reductions would be made after the survey then as a seller, I'd be mightily cheesed off if you messed me around for the sake of £1k. If I thought you'd mess about throughout the process, I might be tempted to put it back on the market. That's the risk you face. If you lost this sale, you'd have another survey to pay out, maybe legal fees and might have to apply for another mortgage etc if your offer expired / rent for longer / not be able to move before Christmas etc etc. Is it worth it for £1k? If it Is, then go back and negotiate but I wouldn't in your situation.

@namechangedtoday15 there wasn’t a lot of interest, we offered our max budget but we knew we were not getting a bargain as it’s so much more expensive than previous sales on the street, it needs a little bit of cosmetic updating so it didn’t attract a bidding war. We can move quickly which the vendor wanted and they have no onward chain.. I think we’re going to get a quote done but if it is a major repair urgently needed we simply can’t afford it so will see. We haven’t yet paid any legal fees as wanted our mortgage offer first.

Why should you expect a bargain OP? The vendors obviously have a price they need to get for their next move.

As for previous sales, are they like for like? Our NDNs sold for £250k...mine will go for more when we eventually sell as it's got more bedrooms and is far bigger overall.

Check the age of the property - you say it's old - 1774 old, 1837 old or 1900s old? Depending on age, it may not have had a DPc, so you may not need to lower the ground level, and putting in a couple of airbricks won't costs a fortune. I note the wording is all 'appears to be' and 'may have been', so actually, you don't know that the are problems, or that the ground level is affecting the perhaps non existant DPC.

I don't think this sounds too bad. They ALWAYS say about the flat roof. I do find they give worst case scenario in case of comeback later.

I'm sure we had the almost exactly same wording about the damp course and ground elevation in one of our purchases and wondering if it's actually something they say as standard in certain circumstances.