Help! No planning consent. Grade 2 listed.

[tigerpug]

Looking for advice on behalf of my mum, who is in the midst of a nightmare planning situation.

She bought her grade 2 listed house a few years ago. The person she bought from had done extensive refurbishment to the property. The sale was straight forward and with her solicitors guidance.

She has decided to sell, and her home is now under offer, and she has instructed a different solicitor to deal with the sale.

This week the buyers solicitor has raised the issue of planning consent for a glass roof on the original entry porch. There is no record of this being approved by conservation, planning or building regs.

She has been in contact with the person who she bought the house from - he says that he replaced the roof 'like for like', and therefore didn't seek approval for this. He also said that that had this new roof not been adequate, it would have been picked up by the building regs team when they visited the property to sign off another part of the building.

Obviously less then ideal. Her new solicitor is looking into retrospective planning permission (which is going to delay the sale, so she will lose her buyer), or a possible indemnity clause.

My main question is this. Who is responsible for this situation, and any potential monetary losses? My mum, who followed the guidance of her original solicitor. The original solicitor, who allowed the sale to proceed. Or the person who sold on a house without the correct sign-offs.

Any advice would really be appreciated.

Are there any photographs from before the glass on the entry porch was replaced? Hopefully the previous owner can supply something.

If it can be proven that it was indeed a like for like replacement, it is my understanding that neither planning permission nor listed building consent would have been required.

I had a situation a couple of years ago where I dealt with the sale of a Grade II listed house where the whole roof had been replaced, with no consents in place. Through photographs we were able to show that it was a like for like replacement, and the conservation officer at the local authority was prepared to write a letter confirming that they were happy no consent was necessary.

Mildura, thanks for this.

The previous owner (who did the refurb) does have a very grainy photo of the previous roof, which looks the same as the new roof. You really wouldnt be able to tell which materials were used in the original construction.

However, the buyers solicitor seems to think the roof would have originally been supported by wood, whereas the new roof is supported by toughened plastic looking material.

Plastic on a grade 2 listed would be a "no no" one would have thought. That would not be close to original construction. Get the insurance policy. With all due respect, it is only a porch and presumably someone can fix it to the required standard. Reduce the price?

Hi Bubbles, i used the word porch but really its more then that - a large entryway room, like a sun room at the front of the house which also houses the front door. So to replace the roof would be a much larger cost than a typical porch area.

The roof is made of toughened glass, with reinforced plastic supports.

The person who she bought from i.e. the previous owner who did the work, says that when he bought the property the roof was made of the same materials. So he replaced an old glass & plastic roof with glass and plastic. Thats where the 'like for like' comes in to play.

However, the new buyers solicitor is saying that unless there is paperwork to sign this new roof off, my mum will have to apply for retrospective permission, or replace the roof with materials original to the house (most likely wood supports). The buyer isn't happy with an indemnity clause.

She is caught between three parties, each holding firm with their views. Surely she shouldn't be massively out of pocket when she's done nothing wrong.

When was the house listed? Because if it has been listed only fairly recently then it will be easy to show the work was done before it was listed, and that would explain why an historic house has a plastic and glass roof. The burden of proof is on your mother

The house was listed in the 60's (this is from memory - its not my house), so the work was done after this.

The burden of proof is on your mother Oh god, really?

Shouldn't her previous solicitor should have investigated and picked up on this when she was in the process of buying the house?

And wouldn't the seller have had to tick a contractual box to say all the work don to the house was above board and legal?

I'm not sure of the who would be liable, although I'd imagine your mum as current owner? I'd think the easiest and cheapest solution would be in indemnity policy if the buyers would accept that

potential claims maybe, but it is never that easy, and there may be loopholes. Your mother will have to ask for the purchase file and check the contract. I would do lots of detective work - getting photos of the house from all ages, in the hope of working out when this was actually replaced and what it looked like initially. I would go to the local council office and ask to see the listing file for the house, which should have all information. I really wouldn't be surprised if it was not in the original state when it was listed in the 60s. I would really investigate the roof and see if there are any clues. I would probably chat to the listing officer and see what they suggest, show them photos. Is it really obvious what was there initially? It seems odd for the buyer's solicitor to insist on original materials when there is no proof what they were.

Check with the solicitor before any visit to the council to speak about the specific problem. If the council are alerted to a possible breach of planning/lack of listed building consent, it may make it harder/impossible to obtain indemnity insurance.

When I purchased my solicitor missed something in the lease, it cost £700 to put right and they refunded the cost of putting it right. I would ask them why not raised by them and gently mention the solicitors regulation authority, it took a while as they had to review the file but got there in the end with relitavely little agro.

You can see the listing information on the historic England website plus there are other resources. I'm a buildings archaeologist who does a lot of work for planning applications so feel free to pm me details and I'll have a nosy for you.

Hi Liquid, thank you so much for this - but i don't want to create work for you.

Im sat here looking at both photos of this roof (pre reno old roof/post reno new roof) and to me it would be impossible to prove what the old roof was made of. The new roof looks slightly different, in that the guttering along the roof line is white, whereas the existing was black/reddish (apparently this was painted plastic).

Thanks for all your advice and views on this. I will let you know how we get on this week with it all.

If you haven't done so then check out the planning history on the council website. old drawings and sometimes photos on there sometimes going back 40-50 years.

Ive checked and there isn't anything relating to the roof thats causing the issue.