What do I need in my renovation?

[penuchaf]

We're in the early stages of planning a renovation on what will hopefully be a long term house. We want to do it for us, and do it well, but we don't have endless money so can't have solid gold outside taps and a hand polished gravel driveway.

I'm a bit bowled over with all the things I need to think about so would love some tips, recommendations, pointers, whatever. For example, I want USB sockets in certain places, I read somewhere about making sure they were a certain type (grade? Output?) to ensure fast enough charging. I also need someone to talk to me in words of one syllable about network cabling and whether I need it. More broadly than that, I know I want a decent size coat/shoe cupboard, I also want an airing cupboard although this may be in the form of a radiator in a cupboard rather than a traditional hot water system.

So, please, what should I be thinking about/investigating or what do you wish you'd done when you did your renovation?

PS, it's a 1960s detached. Not a mansion.

Hopeful bump

Haha depends what sort of refurb you’re doing. If you want USB sockets though get them from screwfix they have a deal on £10/each or £7.50/each of you buy 2+

www.screwfix.com/p/lap-2-gang-sp-13a-switched-socket-3-1a-2-outlet-usb-charger-white/4087P?tc=BB4&ds_kid=92700019938272150&ds_rl=1248154&ds_rl=1245250&ds_rl=1247848&gclid=CjwKCAjwlejcBRAdEiwAAbj6KQE5nVP-Yl8RwW5EmpKEQ5nbd1qLLEGEZQH6nEyJaHGCM1qSYTzSuRoCefAQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=CIjMxe-duN0CFUdmGwodEG8JDw

They should be 3.1amp chargers, not 2.1.

Network cabling is a good idea if you’re replastering and able to run cables fresh. Run Cat7 network cable back to a single point so you can link it to a switch/router. You don’t actually need it- most WiFi networks are more than sufficient however. Unless you are running high quantity data networks cabling is almost never needed in domestic circumstances.

For getting a coat cupboard well that just depends where you’ve got space. As for an airing cupboard you don’t actually need to put a radiator inside. Just ask your plumber to run some of the hot water copper pipe through it. It’ll give off plenty of heat.

Also if you’re stripping your walls then it is an excellent idea to put even 1 inch of rigid foam insulation on the external walls. It will make such a big difference. I bitterly bitterly regret not doing the same as I planned external insulation, and then ran out of money :////

Thank you so much hiddenmnetter! Good info on the USB sockets and network cabling although I still need to do some research into what network cabling does/is...

I should have been clearer, I'm not looking so much for advice on exactly how to have my airing cupboard and coat cupboard, that's my fault for starting threads after weeks of early shifts and serious sleep deprivation! What I was after was the tips like yours about the rigid foam insulation, basically stuff I might not have thought about that I should do now while I can. I guess like the long kitchen thread on here, but to cover the whole house. So your tip is great. I also read something about installing a safe in the floor during a renovation.

Start with the roof and walls, check its waterproof and any repairs get done ie ridge tiles re pointing, wall ties etc
1960 id be checking for damp should be ok but start with things like this, check joists etc then worry about network cable why do you want these? I can understand if you are rewiring house I suppose?

Are you going back to brick? If yes, then replumb and rewire (given that in a 60’s house your plumbing and wiring is probably 50-60 years old). Put in a new central heating system as well which isn’t hugely expensive if you’re already doing the boiler.
If you go back to brick as I said, at least 1 inch of rigid insulation foam on external walls will mean you never have cold walls.

Take the opportunity to get under your floor and do two things- purchase insulation, rigid foam is best but if you can’t afford it rockwool will do very well and insulate under your floorboards (both ground and 1st floor). Insulation on ground floor is for blocking draughts and heat retention and on the first floor is for sound absorption. The other thing is to make sure that all underfloor pipes are lagged. Once again your builder doesn’t want to because it’s time consuming but it’s worthwhile because it will trap heat where you want it- inside your heat envelope.

Sound proof adjoining walls- we didn’t realise the issue until after our plastering was done and it’s caused endless problems. Acoustic plasterboard - it’s heavy and your builder will tell you it’s not really necessary, but anything to reduce acoustic transfer is valuable. Once again bitterly regret not taking advantage.

Network cable is for running networks that don’t use WiFi. You don’t need it unless high speed internet and data transfer is something you need and you don’t mind having all your network devices plugged in rather than wireless.

Upgrade your mains water supply- dig up the drive and replace the (likely) 12mm lead pipe with 25 or 32mm blue polypipe. You’ll never regret it. Check that you need to, but if you get a dribble from the kitchen tap, upgrade it.

At the same time, get a water softener. My bathroom shower screen has been cleaned once in 6 months and doesn’t have streaks on it. Softened water is the best. My tea and coffee don’t have scum, my kettle doesn’t have crud in it. And more importantly I know all my brand new plumbing isn’t slowly furring up and will last longer. My brand new hot water cylinder is retaining its efficiency because it’s all softened water.

Make sure your replastered walls have plaster down to the floorboards. Coupled with filling gaps between floorboards you will have a mouse free home if all points of access have been blocked.

That’s all I can specifically think of. Oh yes- the loft. Get them to board it out and insulate both the roof joists and the ceiling joists. Then board the lot (they need to be careful here to still have left room for the joists to breathe). At the same time get them to run a circuit for a socket and a lighting main up to the loft. If you ever do a loft conversion you have the cabling ready then.

Can’t think of anything else that isn’t dependent on the details of your property.

There’s s Dutch company that make secret wall panels. They do a hidden toilet brush panel. That would probably be at the top of my list.

Great thread!

I was planning to start similar. I spoke to a builder today arranging him to come out and see my drawings/site and he asked if I’ve thought about fixtures and fittings and I just know it’s going to cause endless sleepless nights!

Basically everything @hiddenmnetter says.

I went back to brick in part of my house and bitterly regret not doing a partial rewrire, plumb and insulate in that area because I’ll basically have to do it all again when I have enough cash for the full reno

Brilliant, this is exactly what I'm after. It will be rewired and replumbed and that's why we wondered about network cabling - whether there would be a time in the future we would regret it if we didn't do it now.

@Catmatrat and @serbska that's why I started the thread, there's going to be so much to think about and I just don't want to turn around a year from now and say 'oh, I wish we'd done X'. It's not so much the big ticket items, although even then the planning of the lighting etc is going to be a mammoth task I'm sure, it's more the things like hidden wall panels for loo brushes, recommendations for sound proofing and insulation, water softeners.

I've got positive input ventilation, CCTV/alarms and airconditioning on my list of things to investigate, along with plumbing a towel rail into a cupboard that can operate off the main central heating system but also be heated electrically - I've seen something on you tube. I think.

There will always be something you’ll wish you’d done though I think.

5a lighting is something to look into!

Oh for sure. We'll forget something, put something in the wrong place or something will be invented in the meantime! Probably all of the above.

5a lighting... OK, I'm off to google.

Have you thought about things like doors, door handles, light switches, sockets etc yet? Would be interested in having someone to chat with about these types of little details as I find it overwhelming!

Chat away! I'd love to have someone to discuss it all with.

Light switches I've given no thought to, although there's a thread running on here currently about rewiring/electrics which mentioned big switches in areas that you might be trying to use your elbow to switch things on and off which I thought was interesting. In previous renovations we've always gone for just your bog standard white switch/dimmer, same with sockets, but they were never long term houses so... I don't even have a very good idea of what's out there.

I'm struggling to get OH to consider this stuff but I really feel like I want the decisions made - firstly to keep an eye on costs and secondly because I don't want to be making snap decisions on the spot when the plumber/sparky/whoever is standing there.

Doors, well I know we want better quality and style than in our previous house. In the house we're currently in we have a wooden front door (listed house) and decent but not original internal wooden doors. I'm a bit torn on what to do with the renovation project - it's 1960s so it's not like I'm going to be in reclamation yards hunting out original doors. So what's the alternative? This is my problem, too many options and so much I don't even know exists.

What's your project? I'd love to hear about it.

Forgot:

External power sockets, external lights with an internal switch, and an external flood light.

Shaved sockets in the bathroom- 2 per bathroom so you can charge electric toothbrushes and use a shaver.

Consider smart house gadgets. If you use a wireless smarthouse (google/hue/nest etc) then it’s mostly about having enough sockets to plug things into. If you want a hardwired smart house then it requires cables being run everywhere.

We use wireless but I ended up needing 4 sockets with 6 USB ports to cover everything plugged in by the router (think: router, google WiFi, home phone, nest thermostat, front door nest cam, network switch (I ran network cable for the TV) hue Bridge).

Also if you don’t have one already get a feed for a doorbell if you ever want a wired doorbell (like I want now for my smart doorbell).

Also think about where power will come from if you want external cameras for your house.

Also will you ever want AC? I know this summer was a freak since 1976, but if you get reverse cycle it can assist on those cold mornings if you forgot to turn the heating on! If so get it done while the mess is still being made.

GET A BIGGER POWERBOARD THAN YOU THINK YOU’LL NEED. We got a big single bank board with room for 16 circuits. We’ve now occupied every circuit and would like at some stage to put an annexe in which will mean a new circuit board!!

I’m a fan of dimmers and like the idea of the remote control ones and 5A lighting like I mentioned to you before.

I’m the same with doors, want good quality with a nice handle. My cats better not even think about damaging them!

Exactly and maybe to an electrician a socket is a socket and they’ll just put any old thing in! No thanks, I want to choose.

So are you renovating your whole house? Mine is a two storey extension to an ex LA so nothing fancy but it’s a big project and will have two bathrooms and three new bedrooms in it so it’s an awful lot to consider! Once that’s done I then need to re-do all of the current house including knocking a current kitchen/bathroom into just a kitchen. So a big big job!

@hiddenmnetter thank you for all those extra points! Some great ones to think about.

Yes, we will probably get a reverse cycle unit, but need to investigate the options available here. We spent years living somewhere where reverse cycle is common. We decided we wanted AC after this summer which was a freak, I know, but most summers in the last few years have had a few hot days and I sometimes work night shifts so sleeping in the day is tricky enough without it being stuffy and hot.

Running wiring for a wired doorbell is a good tip, as is the info about the number of USB ports you used.

Catmatrat we have cats to ruin all our carefully chosen fixtures and fittings too. Ours is 1960s which needs full renovation, a bit of a rejig and an extension. We're also going to build a garden office/workshop. Your extension sounds enormous! How exciting. Are they spare rooms/kids rooms/master bedroom? I haven't even started on bathroom design... And need to make a decision on flooring for a big kitchen/diner/family. Argh. What choices have you made so far? Maybe they'll inspire me.

Hi,

By the sound of it we are having same things done, we are doing a full rewire, changing the central heating system, radiators, the boiler and the mains water incoming pipe. We are getting a water softener and a boiling water tap. We are insulating with wool between the floors, mainly for noise reduction as we are having engineered wood flooring upstairs.

We have just removed cavity wall insulation which was damp as it allowed the moisture from the outside wall to travel to the inside wall. Been told the cavity is there for a reason and should not be filled. Been also told to not insulate under the groud floor for the same reason, the air should circulate and there should not be a barrier at the condensation point as that potentially creates damp.

I'm really worried that we will freeze in winter. We are at the top of our budget so don't think we can afford rigid wall insulation. Can someone tell me how much roughly does that cost please? Ours is a detached house so each room has two outside walls

We are having a network (internet cable) embedded into walls as we both work from home and our PCs need superfast wired internet. Also something to consider if you have teenage kids that are likely to do live online gaming

We are having some USB sockets and wide rocker light switches as my husband prefers the look and I prefer the ease of use,some of the standard ones in our house are so stiffit hurts my finger to press them. We are having outdoor sockets too (for a lawnmower and Christmas lights) and an automatic security light added to the wall facing the garden.

Hm what else. A full re-plaster, removing two internal walls, changing some windows and patio doors. Removing a fireplace and capping off a chimney. Relocating the boiler, bathroom and kitchen services. Shutting off a coal cupboard from the outside and making it into under stairs storage on the inside.

Might as well be re-builting the whole house, there's so much

Get lots of quotes, the quote for our bathroom alone varied from £16k to £6

@hiddenmnetter you shouldn't be making tea with softened water! It is softened using salt and is really bad to drink as it has a high sodium content.

We are adding a raw water tap on each floor to save having to go to the kitchen and get a glass for this very reason.

Is a raw water tap just a cold water tap drawn directly from the main supply? Interesting idea on having one added to each floor... I always just drink cold water from the bathroom tap but I'm guessing I shouldn't (or is this only in the context of having a water softener?)?

The wool between floors - has anyone had a before and after experience? We did this in one room of our current house, as a tester and haven't noticed much difference but firstly, there's a ton of pipes/gaps and secondly maybe the fact it's only in one room doesn't help. I'm not averse to doing it in the next house whatsoever, just wondering really.

aisteb I've no recommendations on the insulation I'm afraid, I'm just not knowledgeable enough. Is central heating going to be your sole source? We're going to have a multifuel too although we actually prefer a relatively cool house.

Do you mind me asking roughly what your whole project is going to cost? No probs if you'd rather not say. We did some work on this house but it has incredibly poor access and is listed so costs are hard to compare. Last major refurb we did is coming up for 5 years ago now and I know costs have rocketed.

penu yes just normal unsoftened water. If you don't have a water softener you can drink anything in the house, but if you soften it, you should have a separate pipe be therefore a tap for the untreated 'raw' drinking water. We only have this in our kitchen which feels like a hike in the night and I'm half pissed

It's only babies and people on low sodium diet that shouldn't drink softened water, generally it's not a big problem for everyone else. We are still going to keep our kitchen tap not softened and our central heating system will be filled with hard water as we are having a combi boiler and apparently they can deteriorate with softened water and the warranty is not valid unless the system is filled with hard water.

The odd glass of the softened water from the kitchen tap won't kill you. Though we are planning on getting Big Berkey water filter and drinking only that as I am concerned about flouride, hormones etc in the mains but that is a whole different topic.

According to our calculations, all in (including labour and all new fixtures and fittings including aluminium large doors, upvc windows, kitchen appliances etc) should cost around £65k. This a 1930s 3 bed detached, the only thing we are not touching is the doors as they are nice solid ones that will be rehung and they will paint the ceilings but we will paint all the rooms and the woodwork ourselves.

Let me know if you want breakdowns of any specific quotes.

We've had a couple of construction companies quotes and the quotes were through the roof, when you factor in the VAT it was all closer to 100k. We will take on separate traders that are all small fish and don't charge VAT, one of them we know personally (a distant family member of my husband's) so it's him and his mates or tradesmen he knows and they are all happy to work around each other.

If they turn out to be good and if you are anywhere close to Sussex I can pass on the contacts

oh our house is around 1300 square feet for reference on costs.

Of course the odd glass won't kill you, but drink nothing else and you are adding salt to your diet unnecessarily.

A boiling water tap plumbed over the hob for filling pans for pasta and veg etc.