Planning Permission Query...

[jemihap]

Firstly let me say I have ZERO experience of obtaining any form of planning permission.

I recently emailed my Local Authority Planning Dept. with a very basic query regarding the likelihood of obtaining pp for converting an agricultural building into a residence (to be used by myself as an owner occupier NOT as some form of commercial property development venture).

After waiting 3 weeks and sending a follow up email I eventually received a reply just stating that I need to submit a formal ''Pre-Application Advice'' form along with a fee of £250!!

I can understand the need for the fee, especially when dealing with enquiries from commercial property developers and I'd happily submit the form and pay the £250 if I had at least a vague indication that pp could, in theory, be obtained but surely they can't expect someone who has no experience at all to pay £250 straight off the bat, only to then possibly be told ''you haven't got a snowball in hells chance of pp being granted so don't bother submitting a full application''

Has anyone had any experience with their LA Planning Dept. and managed to obtain an initial. informal, non-committal, indication on a proposal's likelihood of success or are they all as intransigent and officious as mine?

I think that's actually quite good. At least you don't end up spending money on drawings etc which will be wasted. Our L.A. don't offer any pre application at all.

We got some pre-application advice for free with our council. It didn't guarantee anything but was really helpful. Haven't submitted actually application yet but looking to in the next week or two. Fingers crossed.

The alternative is to use a planning consultant but the cost will be higher. You can also search the local authority planning portal to see how applications in the same area were handled. You can also find out if the area is a conservation area and subject to additional guidelines.
Personally I would then spend the £250 to get the advice. Go prepared- make sure you know what you are asking-
I would want to know what size they might allow, what windows might be allowed- what conservation is likely, access, timescales and find out what their policy is regarding saving older building, change of use from Agricultural use to residential, and if the new property will have likely restrictions that might limit your ability to sell it later.
Best of luck

In our town hall, you can walk in and ask for a chat with the planning dept. They were very hepful - obviously, they can't make any guarantees but will talk you through regulations and procedures.

Certain agricultural building have permitted development rights, do lots of reading on planning portal and other websites to see what it entails and if you know the age and current class of use of the building then you may be able to answer your own question.

Thank you very much for the replies, very helpful.

I have done as much research as possible (Short of fully reading and digesting the entire Joint Local Development Plan... all 386 pages of it!)

I've established that the site falls outside of the ''Joint Local Development Plan'' area covering the nearby village, but it doesn't fall into any kind of conservation area either.
I'm also guessing that permission could, in theory, be granted under Class Q - Change of use agricultural to residential.
I've also established I couldn't carry out any work under ''Agricultural Permitted Development'' as the plot is only 0.6 acres so is too small to be classed as ''agricultural land'' in terms of permitted development.

I'd be quite prepared to use a pro planning consultant for the formal pre-application and any subsequent full application, to make the process as smooth as possible for all concerned including the council, all I really want at this stage is the vaguest of indications that planning approval could in theory be gained or whether it's a complete and utter non-starter.

Sorry to drip feed.... I forgot to mention I don't actually own the plot, it's coming up for auction.

As agricultural/pasture land it's only worth approx £3k but if I had any indication that I could gain permission for my ''tiny home'' plan I'd be willing to pay considerably more for it.

Who is selling it? If it's a farmer I'd be surprised if you can get planning as they've probably looked at that option already. Have you looked to see if any previous applications have been made on the property?

Most planning departments are really helpful if you ring them up.

Do you know the village. Will people likely object and why?

Land agents can be a good source of information for this.

Land agent/surveyor on maternity leave here!

Pre-app advice situation varies within different councils but the procedure and fee you've stated is very normal. I'm in Cornwall and until about 5 years ago you could contact the council and get some informal advice for free, now it's pre-app with the £250 fee.

Having said that, if you get a positive pre-app that will help you a long way in getting planning permission.

Alternatively, if you call around some of your local land agents/chartered surveyors/planning consultants you might be lucky and get half an hour of free advice in the hope you'll then use them to get your planning, oversee the conversion etc.

The good thing with permitted development is that even if this particular barn isn't eligible to be converted under permitted development, the precedent is still set to bring these sort of buildings back into use, so ultimately you are more likely to get your planning permission.

The previous poster is right that anyone with their head screwed on will get planning before they sell to add value. Can you think of any reason why this might not have happened in this particular case?

Is it listed? Is it in good structural condition? I only ask because if it's basically fallen down then you probably wouldn't get permission to convert, you might be lucky and get permission to knock down and rebuild from new. If it's knackered and listed the seller might not want to draw attention to it because they can enforce expensive repairs which he will be liable for!

Is it on Rightmove?

I'm a planner. The pre-application service exists because there are so many variables at work which determine whether PP would be acceptable. What seems like a very basic question actually takes a lot of work from our side, and can't be answered by a 5 minute look at a map. You'll either need to do the pre-app or take your chances.

Book an hour with a local architect or planning consultant. They know this stuff, it’s their job. Obviously, find one that specialises in domestic barn conversions.

Thanks once again, some great advice and guidance here.

I have looked and although I can't find any previous applications I'd be surprised if the vendor hadn't applied (or at least pre-applied) for pp for a ''proper'' full size dwelling of some description on the plot and had a firm knock back.

The difference is my plan is simply to convert the very small (9mx4m) derelict building into a ''tiny home'' without extending it's footprint or external characteristics and leave the rest of the plot as grazing/pasture land.

The building needs a new roof but the walls appear structurally sound.

I've had a further reply saying that as the plot is outside of the local village development boundary my proposal would ''need to comply with the criteria’s within Policy TAI 7 of the Joint Local Development Plan.''.... so that at least gives me something to go, just a case of trying to decipher what the criteria's within TAI 7 are now!!

It definitely looks like my best move would be to visit my local planning consultant and see if they think it's even worth submitting a formal pre-application.

My property is listed and everything I read said to ask the Planning dept for advice on whether planning permission is needed.
My query was also met with a demand for formal application and the appropriate fee. A friend said that councils have axed most of their planning officers and no informal advice is given anymore.