Is this normal for a leasehold flat?

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I own a ground floor flat in a two storey maisonette, built in 1900 as a big house but split into 4 flats (2 ground floor and two top floor).

Freeholder is a man, not a company, who owns the freehold for my side, upstairs have the same freeholder, so we're both leasehold flats.

Both have long leases, 150yrs+

I'm selling my flat, have let the freeholder know to expect some questions. Depending on the length he might charge a small fee or might not to answer them, he's always been pretty human. We paid £17K to extend the lease a few years ago, it was 68 yrs, and I think that's the last money he'll get out of it in his lifetime, but he doesn't come across as grabby about it.

So to my question. The buyers might want to extend, I told him, he's fine with it. He spoke to upstairs about something unrelated and they have contacted me informing me that they have no objection to the extension so long as it is a joint financial undertaking to make a two storey extension!

I didn't think it was any of their business? I can see why they'd want to do this, but equally I can't see how it is for them to object or not.

Just wondering if anyone has any idea of what would be normal in this situation

It would be for the upstairs leaseholders to negotiate with the ground floor leaseholders
and get an agreement on I would think. The foundations would need to be sufficient for two storeys instead of one. The first floor leaseholders couldn't otherwise extend other than by going into the roof space/adding a dormer. What does your lease say? Also what about local planning policy and any restrictions? I wouldn't worry about upstairs tbh.

Actually it might make things cheaper for your buyer - he pays a bit more for footings and upstairs pay for the roof?

Thanks wow

I had a quick look through the lease but can't find anything obviously relevant. It's old and yellowing and practically written on parchment and in such archaic legalese I find it hard to follow tbh

The beers might be keen to benefit from this potential saving, roof etc. I guess I'm just concerned about whether upstairs have any power to block this unless the buyers go along with doing a joint project. Upstairs wrote their email in a way to imply they do have power, but it could well be a fake implication to try and influence us IYKWIM.

If my buyers get the idea their extension could be blocked then they will pull out, and it's my only offer in 3 months, and at 10% below the already-low asking price, so I'm really keen not to let them go and have to start the whole gruelling process again. SE London market is tricky at the moment to say the least...

Basically can I say to upstairs 'that's nice dear' and ignore them, or do they likely have a legal leg to stand on in objecting to an extension? I will get legal advice on the lease, just wondering what is normal...

Anyone can object to a planning application on legitimate grounds and anyone applying for planning permission should be savvy enough to know that anyone impacted in anyway might object. That doesn't mean their objection will hold sway with the planners. Personally I'd take a very dim view of someone who tried to hold me to ransom over a planning application by saying they'll object unless we make a joint application. The only other thing they could do is put pressure on the freeholder, but who knows how successful that might be.

I hadn't though about it from a planning application point of view... I was imagining the extension falling within permitted development, but to be honest I have no idea.
That all sounds a bit more normal in that case, and of course upstairs would want to consider whether any downstairs extension gave them grounds for objecting, but equally they'd have to show it was real grounds not just foot stamping tantrums about not getting a cheap extension themselves!
Feeling a bit calmer.

It seems to me you are worrying about something that might happen well after you have moved and shouldn’t make any difference to you and makes no difference to your sale.
Your buyers have said they might want to extend the lease. Your upstairs neighbours have said they might want to extend. You are not selling a property with any control over whether these things happen so don’t worry- you have done your part by checking with the freeholder to see if he might be open to talking about extending the lease.

I was viewing it a little differently Jonathan.

I'm talking about building an extension, not extending the lease. And since the buyers want to do this they need to know if the freeholder will agree. He has told me he will, so I'm fairly confident he'll stick to this - my background about extending the leasehold etc was me gathering my thoughts about him being a broadly fair man in the past.

However upstairs have implied they won't agree to this, so my concern is if they have any legal weight which says an extension can't proceed without their approval too, in which case my buyers won't proceed with the sale, since their offer relies on an assumption they can extend the property.

We'll see... As I say I will get legal advice on the lease, I just wondered if upstairs having any real say in downstairs's extension was normal

OP - these are questions your buyers need to ask and use their energies for. Their solicitor should be reading the lease and advising them. Your solicitor can then discuss with you. That's what you are paying for.

Does 'permitted development' apply to flats? In my area flat owners have to apply for planning permission for things that house owners don't (eg new windows). Don't know if that's the case everywhere.

It is not really your problem to pursue this. The buyer should instruct their solicitor to look into the likelihood of an extension being granted but there are no guarantees until an application is made and passed. Any neighbours would be consulted and have the potential to object although there are only specific grounds on which it would be upheld. Have any neighbours done similar? Permitted Development rights may well not be available especially if the building has been developed already.

Your local council's website should have links listing what objections they take into account when considering planning applications. I can't remember ours fully and yours might be different but the gist is that they have to be significantly affected in specific ways - loss of light, loss of privacy, that kind of thing. I'm finding it hard to imagine upstairs neighbours being enough impacted in these ways that meet the criteria. They can write a letter ranting however they wish but any points that aren't on the list of valid reasons will be ignored.

In short, I think the neighbours have less power than they think. However they may still put off your buyer.

Objections that don’t follow planning guidelines are discounted. They must be factual and relevant to the policies of the local council. No, they cannot hold a leaseholder to random. They cannot be malicious.

Thanks all!

I think I was worrying about upstairs somehow putting the buyer off during the conveyancing stage,not sure how they could except via the freeholder perhaps? But you've given me a reality check that actually they can't really feed in until after purchase is complete, and being blunt I don't care what happens then. And maybe downstairs, when they come to extend, will want to do a joint one with upstairs anyway - I can't see why not?!

OK, I'll chill. Thanks for the advice