Think maybe we made a mistake- offering

[Lolly567]

Hello,

I’m really worried we’ve played this out wrong.. we are FTB and went to see a house on Saturday that went on the market on Friday. We loved the area and got such a good feeling from the house- we imagine ourselves there for 20 + years and starting a family- this is the first house we’ve had that feeling with (although it’s also by far the most expensive we’ve viewed as until recently we thought we had a much lower budget) It’s outdated but would mostly only need cosmetic updating as it’s well looked after, but would probably need new carpets, artex ceilings plastered over, new bathroom eventually and reconfiguration of kitchen, new internal doors, but it’s on for the exact same price that one fully modernised and beautifully decorated is. I’ve also noticed this particular estate agent seems to market things very optimistally, things stay on the market for a while, and they seem to sell for about 10% below asking.

So we decided to go in at 10% under asking (asking is around £240000) We weren’t going to offer yet as we were going to wait and let them have more viewings (and if my thoughts about overpriced are correct then no offers) and then offer, and I thought it might go down better. But estate agent rang for feedback as they do and I got talking and let slip about making an offer, so the estate agent asked what it was. She said it’s almost certainly too low as they’ve just come on the market and will want to see what other offers they get, but she’ll pass it on to them anyway. This was Saturday just before EAs closed, she wasn’t able to get through to pass on offer and left a message to the vendors saying ring me Monday morning. So now im worried they will have been thinking over the weekend that they’ve got an offer, and then they find out it’s lower than they expected.

I’m thinking of ringing up estates and saying we’d like to withhold our offer until they’ve had more viewings? They were a lovely couple and I don’t want them to be offended by too low an offer. Or I was thinking of writing an email saying how lovely the house wa but we’re worried about interest rate rises and don’t want to stretch our affordability too much.

For more information, I’m guessing the owners will have paid off their mortgage by now as they bought pre 1995 and I know the owners want to downsize and they need an offer on their house to be able to put an offer on a new house for them- I got the impression they want to get this done quite quickly as they perhaps have lost out on an onward purchase due to not being
Proceedable.

Thanks so much for any advice. Really would love to get this house but it’s true I don’t want us to stretch ourselves too much as we only have 10% deposit saved although we do have a little cash spare after that.

View some other properties, especially ones with the same agent. Be open minded and look at places that you might have discounted up to now, you never know what might turn up that you really like.

Regarding this house, I'd leave it a couple of weeks. Your offer is on the table, they've not got other viewings, they'll start to get a bit twitchy after a week of so, and even more so after two weeks. If you cool it and let it happen at it's own pace, there's every chance you'll get the place at the price you want to pay, rather than upping your offer in a panic.

If the agent is generally overpriced, it’s a red flag I think, as they sometimes over-value properties to get sellers onto their books. There was an agent where I used to live who overvalued EVERYTHING so an offer of 90% would still be paying top whack.

I think you have been blinded by seeing what you can get for your extra cash. I think you need to see some more houses ASAP.

This one won’t sell quickly - don’t panic. Nothing is selling quickly at the moment. The potential rate rises and Brexit are making people more cautious. Hold your horses for a little while and do some more Market research (ie see some other houses).

The nicely done up one - was it taken off the market unsold?

Don't offer more!! I was worried you were regretting making an offer that was too high or that you'd regretted the property. Your offer was totally reasonable. The market is looking iffy atm. You are first time buyers. I would give them the chance to see how many other viewings they get in the first few weeks. I have friends who have managed only a few viewings in a couple of months. You need that 10% for the work that needs doing (and if you have to do it rather than them, I always inflate a little for the inconvenience). See some more properties as you plan and see how you and they feel in a weekend or two. Happy house buying.

Thanks everyone- good idea about second viewing I think we’ll do that after maybe a week or so. I’m going to send an email to estate agent I think saying we’d like to leave our offer on the table and could they keep us informed of any new offers. Also I’ll say we’re gling to carry on looking at other houses in the area so if anything comes up in their books could they let us know. Does that sound okay? It’s going to be tough waiting it out- I have lots of time off at the moment too and need to do something else to occupy myself other than obsessively going through Rightmove sold prices/comparing them to listings ..!

I think the done up one must’ve sold but it’s not on the Rightmove sold page yet so not sure how much it’ll have gone for but I’m assuming asking price as it looked beautiful- I think maybe there’s a delay between showing SSTC and it turning up on the recently sold pages , seems to be a couple of months delay?

Phone the agent that was marketing the done up one and ask them if it's sold or withdrawn from market. You can always asked to be kept up to date if it comes back onto the market.

We had a similar thing happen - when I was messaging an EA and said something along the lines of - 'if we thought the buyer might take an offer of £630k seriously (10% under asking) then we would consider making an offer, but as it is there are a few other places priced lower that we're focusing on'. Basically we liked the place but thought it massively overpriced, and the owners (who ended up showing us around) thought it was worth every penny! So that put us off even thinking of offering seriously.

Ea says ok fine, understand. Next thing I get an email confirmation of an offer on that property I think some EAs are desperate for offers on places - even if they are lower than the buyer is after because 1) it shows they are doing something and 2) resets buyers expectation so they can talk them into accepting lower offers (especially if they've overpriced on valuation to win the business). I say some - the one I'm talking about was shockingly bad and didn't seem to care that he completely put me off initial interest in the place by his weird approach of basically lying - I was just a means to an end. Needless to say I called him and gave him a bit of an earful as I'd been very clear we weren't actually putting in an offer. Anyway... rant over...

On the whole id say offer what you think it's worth. Be careful of pressure tactics to get a higher price. Make sure you shop around - unless you're in one of the areas that is booming right now (chances are you're not) then you are in a position of power and there's probably not much competition out there. Don't increase your offer unless you want to and you think it's worth it. It's painful for everyone if you pull out further down the line. Consider only offering 1% more if the agent is asking 2% more (if other people are offering they will tell you)

think saying we’d like to leave our offer on the table and could they keep us informed of any new offers.

Personally, I wouldn’t leave your offer open as it allows them to take advantage. I wouldn’t wait a week or so either for a second viewing as it may come across as you’re quite indecisive/not that serious and also allows someone else to offer in the meantime.

I would view it soon, if you really like it, put in whatever you feel is a reasonable offer and tell them your offer stands until the end of the week (or whatever) after which point it will be withdrawn.

Do not leave your offer on the table!! It will merely serve the Ea to state ‘there’s already an offer of x that’s been declined’ but not help you in any way. I’d withdraw it.

The market is falling with Brexit uncertainty - 10% below asking is probably going to be as good an offer as they'll get (depending on the area of course).

That sounds very strange of the estate agent Justlurking!!

Good advice- I will not say we’re leaving it on the table. I’ll try and organise a second viewing for the weekend, but I still feel a bit awkward checking all the things we’d normally check on a second viewing when the owners are there (don’t want to ask if we could have one when they’re not there as worried about sounding rude!) also I just feel awkward that we offered low but I have to remember 10% is normal!

Then by the time we’ve had our second viewing hopefully they will have had other viewings and we can then raise our offer to 8% under. Do you think it’s a good idea to discuss what they might come down to in person at the viewing or definitely just leave the negotiations to do via estate agent?

Play your cards close to your chest with the owners - a second viewing would have been better before making an offer. Definitely see if there is anything else you like too. Don't raise your offer too quickly unilaterally if they haven't had any other offers. Maybe ask via the EA what would they accept? If they come back with something like 'closer to the asking price' then that's not very helpful so ask them to put a figure on it. You don't have to give an answer straight away and you can have multiple conversations with the agent - you need to discuss things/think about things, etc.

Btw asking what would they come down to sounds negative compared to what would they accept.

Don’t feel awkward-take your time, go with a list of things to check, ask lots of questions (I’ve sold before and someone turned up with a clipboard and literally dozens of questions - I honestly didn’t mind though and was happy to answer everything).
Remember you’re spending hundreds of thousand so it’s important to get it right.

The estate agents don’t usually like you discussing directly with the vendors but I have lots of times and have had people discuss with me. I would maybe ask them if they have found somewhere etc and then maybe get into the conversation how your mortgage is all agreed, you’ve got nowhere to sell, can move ASAP, etc.

OR - phone the EA, ask if they have turned actually down your offer as you have seen another property you are keen on and want to know where you stand with this one. It might press them into giving you an actual answer rather than ‘they are waiting for any other offers’. If they say it’s definitely turned down, request a second viewing to allow you to decide whether you are able to increase.

You need to play your cards a lot closer to your chest. Don't be over enthusiastic to the vendors and don't ask them what they'd accept either. That's just going to tell them that you're very keen and will increase your offer. Ask the vendor if you can have a walk round the house on your own once they've shown you around, take your time, then be vague and leave. Don't say you'll put another offer in, or that you like the house lots, or be pally with them.

Have you viewed any other properties since putting your offer in? You need to put this one to the back of your mind for at least a few more days.

I notice you've already decided to raise your offer to 8% below asking. I think that's too high. Raise it a smaller amount first. That will probably get refused, so you can then go to your maximum if you want but be sure to tell them that it's your best and final offer and you won't be increasing further.

Really though, I think you're rushing ahead on this. Slow down. Let them realise that they're not getting a flood of people through the door. They'll push you for the maximum they can get out of you and you're in danger of playing right into their hands with that.

I would let slip you think you've over offered due to the changes you will need to make to get the property to work for you

I wasn't suggesting asking what the vendors would accept directly of them.

It's a game OP and the prospective buyer and the seller dance around each other until someone puts a line in the sand and a deal can be agreed. Too many metaphors, but you get the idea. Being direct can offend and what you really want to find out is what the sellers will sell for. Don't let the EA bully you - they don't work for you and are trying to maximise their commission.

I'd just book in other viewings and don't share your view with the agents and definitely don't tell them that you might offer more! It's a game unfortunately and sometimes you won't win regardless. But remember that if the seller comes back to you after a longish time, you'll know that no-one else has even offered what you have so you certainly won't need to offer more! There's no guarantee that another person won't offer £500 more than you have and get it but the agents are likely to come back to you and try to bid up the price.

All the stuff about you not wanting to stretch yourself and the age of the bathroom is irrelevant to the seller so not point saying it tbh.

You've got no way of knowing what valuations the agents gave and what this agent has said to the seller about the likely achievable price but if you are the first offer and very quickly, it's not unusual for sellers to want to see what else might happen in the next few days.

Good luck though!

@Lolly567

Some thoughts and observations for you. Calm it right down and take Agatha's advice.

Buying a home is an emotional experience, it has to fit most of your needs and you need to feel moved to part with a great deal of money, but it's a business transaction. Unlike other transactions, value is all a matter of opinion. Negotiations are like a game of chess or cards, you don't show your plan or hand in terms of your private thoughts and you need a poker face even if you're bubbling over with nerves and excitement.

Do have a look at other properties and don't let yourself get carried away, there are always other properties. It's upsetting if you don't get something you offer on and think you wanted, but from experience, it nearly always turns out to be the right thing for you in the long run.

Hardly any vendor is going to accept an under asking offer when the property's only just gone on the market, that doesn't mean they've priced realistically.

Seriously chill out a bit as hard as it might be and get over this feeling that you're obliged to fully inform all parties of your current thoughts and potential plans. Less is more until you need to push matters along.

I haven't read the whole thread, but please remember not to trust the estate agents. Apologies to honest ones out there (there are a few) but mostly they really can't be trusted...no matter how nice they appear

An exception to the "don't show you love it" rule- if THEY clearly love it, you can play the "we REALLY love it, want to start a family here (if the have/had kids...), but this is just the most we can possibly afford! Such a happy home please pretty please!". People who live their homes generally prefer to sell to other people who love the house.

If the done up house is worth 10% more than the one you are offering on, can you afford to make the changes you discussed (new bathroom, knocked through kitchen, carpets and plastered ceiling) for the difference in price? If not... then on then face of it, it is not worth that price.

Also, if your maximum budget is 8% less than asking, how will you afford the updates or are you happy to wait to do the renovations?

Hello, so a few updates!
I’ve booked some viewings in for Friday- with other properties and a second viewing on this one (I let the estate agent know we’re going to see other ones). Trey also said they have no other viewings booked in this week! But also that this is just because it’s a quiet time and people are away on their holidays etc..

But thank you for all the advice on playing cards closer to chest - I will try. But also @MessySurfaces this is the approach I was thinking! Because they do clearly love the home, have been there a long time, looked after it very well, restored it to their personal tastes, bought up children.. and this is genuinely the first home I could see us starting a family (until now DP has always been a bit iffy because just the living arrangement in the flat with the dog at the moment does not work and he really couldn’t imagine having children with that arrangement, but after our viewing he was so much more positive about starting a family!!!) has anyone else gone with this approach and been successful? Or sold to someone who came accross like this?

@Forgiveness we have a few thousand spare after deposit and solicitors to cover paint and can hopefully do the painting ourselves, and then fingers crossed it’ll cover carpets too, if not we’ll leave them for a bit. It’s very clean and livable so I won’t mind holding on with it in current state. Not sure when we’d sort out artex ceilings but again can live with them! And we’re quite good savers so probably in a year or two we will have enough to do bathroom and knock down wall for kitchen (although it will need new structural beams added so quite costly) and new kitchen.

Please bear in mind that artex ceilings often have asbestos in them! That would cost a fair bit to have removed.

Ahh I had heard a bit about that- do you actually have to remove them or can you just plaster over them, therefore not disturbing the asbestos? And do you think the owners will know if they have asbestos in them? Thanks!