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Very confused! Anyone know about cellars?

16 replies

SunnyUpNorth · 31/07/2018 19:57

We have been wanting to make our cellar into a usable space for a few years but we just go round and round in circles with quotes and different opinions. Then we give up for a while til we decide again we really do want to do It and the process starts again.

The problem is the quotes vary so much, around 70k difference from cheapest to most expensive!!! Everyone has different opinions on what we need to do and everyone gives their own opinion with such conviction and dismisses other opinions. We are baffled. Obviously we don’t want to overpay for unecessary work but equally we want to do it decently.

The cellar is quite large - two big rooms and one smaller room, plus stairwell area that we would want to make good. There is also a coal hole room but we use that so want to keep it as is.

Head height is good, over 6ft. The ground is covered in asphalt. The walls are covered in some kind of render done roughly in the 70s. This has deteriorated in some areas and is fine in others. There are windows in all rooms. The only place we get wetness on the floor is around one of the windows which is really old and I think it’s just rain overflowing in. The drainage area outside the window is full of debris, we would get this cleared and perhaps dig out a bit and have gravel put in.

Some quotes have said that although deteriorated in parts, the render provides a level of protection so should be left in place and then a waterproof membrane put over the top. A drainage channel would be installed around the perimeter which the membrane would go down to so that moisture that does come through the render could drain down and away.

Does this method sound good? Would we also need a pump if having a drainage channel?

These quotes have generally been around £40-60k.

Someone mentioned that we could try having a damp proof company in to do the wall and then separately employ an electrician, plumber and window guy and that this would keep costs down. The other companies have been building firms that would do the whole thing themselves.

I contacted a damp guy last week who couldn’t fit the job in but based on my description and rough sizes estimated that if he did do it his fee would be £10k. Obviously significantly less.

There won’t be much electrical work as there are already lights and some sockets, so we would just need a few extra sockets. The boiler is down there and so the plumbers job to install rads would be quite easy.

We had another damp firm out today. They suggested taking all the render off, putting a waterproof coating on the walls and then membrane. They didn’t plan on doing a drainage channel and said they would do the membrane to 3 inches off the floor and then cover the gap with skirting boards. They said the waterproof treatment to the wall would stop water coming in and then the membrane is just extra precaution. They would also replace the ceiling and put spindles on the stairs. Their quote was £12k. Theirs also seems more labour intensive with the removal and disposal of the render. I could ask them about installing a drainage channel.

However I am concerned about the waterproof coating to the wall as I thought modern advice was to allow the water to come in but to provide the means to drain it away. They have 40+ positive feedbacks on mybuilder almost all for damp proof courses.

Obviously their price is great and they could start mid Sept and reckon it would only take 3 weeks or so.

Really don’t know what to do. It’s not a very damp space and with ventilation, working windows and heating should be even better so think I’m over thinking it all. But all the advice is so conflicting that I’m getting confused.

Thoughts?

We were badly stung with a dodgy driveway a few years ago (most expensive quote, local firm that we see everywhere etc) so it has really thrown our confidence in choosing a good contractor.

OP posts:
BubblesBuddy · 31/07/2018 22:44

Have you actually spoken to anyone who has gone through the building regulations with you? 6ft and a bit isn’t enough for habitable space. It’s too low. Current building regs will let you have this but how useful is to a 6ft plus person? You need to consider what you want to use the space for and whether it will be truly habitable. If is is to be usable you need 2.3-2.4m floor to ceiling height. This means digging down. This costs.

The Housebuilding and Renovation site has useful info and you can check building regs too. However to save your sanity, get them explained to you.

I think you need to move away from damp specialists and find a cellar specialist who really knows the building regs and will talk you through ventilation, staircase, fire safety and escape, drainage, tanking, heating and electrics etc. You could spend a lot of money for something that’s sub standard. The site above has costs so you can look at what you need and costs per m2. It’s not cheap but it could give you a fantastic space.

mamapud · 01/08/2018 01:06

I had my basement tanked and dry lined it was 2 big rooms and a small one I made it into a living/kitchen room and a bedroom/ensuite then the small room I use as storage. I did get water out in there and was going to use it as a utility but thought that could make it damp. The building and electrics cost £22k the kitchen cost me £50 as I bought an old pine one and painted it a grey colour then I just bought a length of worktop. The ensuite including fitting cost about £1000 as my stepdad did the tiling. It looks fab now and walls are all dry but if I leave clothes in the storage cupboard they go mouldy so guess there is still damp in the air. I'd says it's added £100k to the value of my house.

MummySparkle · 01/08/2018 01:13

We rent a house with a converted cellar. Ceiling is probably 7ft and it's perfectly adequate. It has a high up window so just feels like another room. It was completely tanked with a waterproof membrane and then new plasterboard fitted a few inches in from that. It is cool down there and sometimes feels very slightly damp, but for the most part it's great. We don't make the best use of it as it's mostly a stuff-dump but we have a TV and desk down there too. Love it!

mathanxiety · 01/08/2018 06:01

It would be a good idea to put in a sump pump imo.

Also, put a concrete path all around the perimeter of the house (outside) with cement tilted away from the foundation. Don't leave grass/clay right beside the foundation.

Buy a de humidifier - biggest capacity you can find. They make cellars quite comfortable.

I live in the US in an area where houses come with basements, and while regs can often differ from region to region and of course from country to country, I imagine some of the issues are similar. One reg wrt basements here is that they have to have separate access to the outside (on top of stairs to living area), so each basement has an outside door with steps leading up to ground level. This is so that exit is possible in case of fire. It can also lead to water flowing down the stairs and into the basement if there is a monsoon like downpour but in for a penny, in for a pound..

It's wise to put in a sewer cleanout pipe (sticking up above the floor) so access is easy for a plumber and also so that backup will take a little longer before emptying over your floor. (Though British Isles plumbing tends to be outside so maybe not necessary. Where I live all pipes are internal).

Also a water standpipe to contain excess water during flooding or prolonged saturation of the soil (especially if clay) or a rise in the water table. It could end up saving your floor from pipe ruptures.

You should get your soil radon tested and find out if your area has ever flooded or is a flood risk.

Look up American sites to see the sort of problems people encounter when redoing basements. You should get a good idea of issues you might face.

Geneticsbunny · 01/08/2018 08:22

What age is your house? If it is victorian or earlier it may not have a damp proof course which could cause problems upstairs if you get the basement tanked without putting drains in.

BubblesBuddy · 01/08/2018 15:46

I would suggest a damp cellar doesn’t add much value. If things in it go mouldy it’s a liability.

Therefore, op, if you actually want a warm and dry space, you have to spend money. Spending quite a lot and still having it damp really isn’t worth it and buyers may well walk away in the future.

SunnyUpNorth · 01/08/2018 17:26

Hi all, thanks for the replies.

Yes it is a Victorian house. There is outside access via a stairs which has a drain at the bottom so that’s not an issue.

I think I would feel more comfortable with a perimeter drain and pump. I’m just not sure about the sealing the bricks vs leaving the render and putting the membrane over it.

Bubbles - building regs explicitly states there is no min head height except on the stairs or if being converted to a stand alone living area eg a completely self contained separate flat. I asked directly about that when I spoke to the building regs man at the council and he said the fact that my 6ft husband is fine down there is more than adequate. He said electrician and plumber would self certify their own work as long as they’re qualified. So it would only be fire regs which we are aware of (large windows in each room) and ventilation which can be easily added in.

We would use the main room as an occasional guest room/snug room. The other area would be used for my husbands exercise stuff and storage for tools, wine, paint, suitcases etc.

We have had a lot of people look at it and they all said we don’t need to dig down and the floor is dry enough. So it’s just the walls I’m unsure of.

Realistically we are never going to spend £50k plus on it as it’s just not that much of a priority. But if we can get it done satisfactorily for £20k then we would do it. I think once it has heating and ventilation any residual damp would be ok. I’m just nervous of removing the render.

Don’t suppose @pigletjohn is around for thoughts?!

OP posts:
Geneticsbunny · 02/08/2018 08:02

I would go for the drains and membrane. It would be very easy to remove and replace if you need to where as paint and injection damp proof stuff can't be removed.

BubblesBuddy · 02/08/2018 08:14

I did not say over 2.3 Head height was a Building regs requirement. I suggested it was good practice for a habitable space. Nearly everyone would recommend a higher head height for comfort. If you just want it fir storage then it’s not an issue. However it will feel claustrophobic - it’s inevitsble. A fully usable space adds value - a cheap make over isn’t the same.

TheTeaFairy · 02/08/2018 11:51

Bumping for advice as I have a similar problem basement Smile

SunnyUpNorth · 06/08/2018 23:31

ANy other thoughts? Cheap quote man is coming back for another look and to discuss a drainage perimeter and alternatives for the wall. Anything in particular I should ask?

I keep thinking about it and can’t get my head around now quotes can be so vastly different.

OP posts:
mathanxiety · 07/08/2018 20:07

My outside stairs had a drain on the bottom too but it needed regular clearing out or leaf jams developed.

You should find out if your area is prone to flooding before making any decisions. Also get a soil analysis with drainage conclusions.

SunnyUpNorth · 07/08/2018 23:07

Ooh how do you get a soil analysis? I was trying to work out how you can tell where the water table is today but couldn’t find much out. Would a soil analysis tell me that?

Don’t think we are prone to flooding and we are also slightly raised from the road, so thinking that might be a good thing?

OP posts:
Dickybow321 · 08/08/2018 00:01

Hmm, I'm 5'10 and my 13 and 16 yos are over 6ft so your cellar wouldn't impress me. Our heads would be bumping along the ceiling. Most people are tall these days so you will be restricting your future purchasing power.

mathanxiety · 08/08/2018 01:44

www.homeadvisor.com/r/soil-engineers-testing/
This may help point you in the right direction.

I agree with Dickybow that 6 feet is not enough headroom. I would urge you to dig to at least 9 feet.

middleagedalready · 08/08/2018 02:33

We once had a house with a basement, it was tanked and had a pump, this was an insurance requirement, have you checked where you stand with building insurance?

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