Historical structural movement - Tie Bar - how would it affect you?

[horslips]

We're going to see a house this weekend, a small victorian detached. It's not a 'pretty' house - no red brick or 'features' but it is in the right location and has been modernised and we can just about afford it. It's probably at the upper end of the price range for similar houses in the area but it doesn't need any work at all which is what we want.

The only thing is - there is a 'tie bar' going laterally across the house from the left side to the right side at first floor level.

I couldn't find a decent picture (and don't want to show the actual house in case someone on here runs and buys it!!!) but the house loks like this:

and the 'tie bar' is like one of these but just a plain circular 'tie' - one on each side of the house painted over to match the rendered walls:

The house has been on the market for about 6 weeks, they've dropped £10k from £360k to £350k.

The current owners bought it 10 years ago and have put on a good big extension extra bedroom, livingroom and bathroom.

The 'tie-bar' was there when they bought it, so I'm guessing they had a survey and were reassured by that.

It's not a forever house for us (most likely 5-10 years).

Would it affect the resale potential very badly? Would it put you off buying?
Or if you got a good survey would you want to buy or expect a big discount?

Everything about the house is right, apart from this issue (haven't viewed yet!!!) but we're worried we might be restricting our future resale options.
The area is in the south and has gone up a lot since the current owners bought it, plus they've added the extension - which makes me think they weren't bothered by the 'tie-bar' but should we be?

Absolutely commonplace on older houses in this area - you'd be hard pushed to buy an older house without one (or more).

Not an area with subsidence.

It wouldn't bother me, they are very common.

Our house is early 18th century and has one. We moved here in January. We mentioned it to the surveyor and he said he'd be surprised if it didn't have one. No subsidence here either.

It's heartening to see others aren't as wimpy about these things as me!

I thought it would really affect most people's perceptions of a house.

Although I know they are a common sight, and you'd obviously choose the same house without one over the same house with one - it's interesting nobody seems too bothered...

Would it affect any offer you would make? Would you use it as a negotiating factor?

I expect that house will still be standing long after modern houses have collapsed.

I don't think you can use it as a negotiating factor. The best negotiating factor you have is to make an offer and stick to it rigidly, citing no more funds available and/or a fear of imminent market falls.

True.

I'm glad the house hasn't sold yet - as otherwise we wouldn't have any hope of buying it!!!

But I do feel that stuff generally moves quick around here and it can only be the price, the tie-bar or both that's stopped it selling....

I guess we'll get a better feel at the viewing - but because I'm keen on it, I'm wary of acting rashly so trying to keep a very level head and be grounded.

If you decide to offer on it then get a full structural survey done.

There is no reason you cannot voice concerns about the tie bar, even though you may know it is not really a problem. So, actually, strictly speaking you could use it as a secondary negotiating factor, although not the main one. However, your concerns would probably not be supported by a surveyor, which is not a good basis for negotiating a discount!

Yes - we'd definitely get a full structural survey.

Even if the tie-bar is not a concern regarding the integrity of the structure, my concern is that its presence affects the 'value' and 'saleability/desirability' of the property - so it may well be that it is a negotiating factor on price when compared to similar properties which don't have a tie-bar.

We need to weigh up, because it is not a forever home, whether the tie-bar will make it unusually hard for us to sell the property on.

Or will we only be able to sell on at a discount to similar properties?

We don't know and I suspect the only way to find out is see what price the house finally sells at - but if we're interested in buying it then we need to try and work out whether the tie-bar is a negative issue in the minds of other potential future purchasers - not just us and the existing owners.

It's not an exact science - hence I'm courting opinion to see what others think.

In the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king and no doubt, in the land of tumbledown shacks, the house with only one tie-bar is king.

But if all the other houses are perfect - it could be a different story.

You are right. If there is a general perception that a tie bar could be a problem, it would likely reduce the resale value, whether it is actually a problem or not. It's the kind of thing that definitely has a bearing on price, but it's also the kind of problem that sellers are usually at pains to stonewall, because it is so abstract. I find sellers try their hardest to bat away these abstract issues, even though they have a real bearing on resale value.

As a seller of a historic house I would genuinely laugh out loud if a buyer suggested the price should be reduced because of a tie bar.

Loads of Victorian houses have tie bars. These were used to pull in and restrain bulging walls. These walls may not have been adequately tied into the structure in the first place and were just badly built. Therefore they should be historic and present no problem at all today.

However, get a Structural Engineer to report on the house if you are worried. The bigger problem might be where the extension joins the original house. The extension will have deeper foundations and there could end up being cracks where they join if the original house has shallow foundations and is still settling.

We have tie bars, as do many houses in our road/surrounding roads due to WW2 bomb damage mainly, no subsidence in the area so I don’t think it comes into it round here, we didn’t really give it much thought used to seeing them in the area, we had a full structural survey & came back with no concerns, so the existence of the bars were not used as a bargaining chip, but I can see that possibly a very cautious or nervous buyer it could put them off.
Depends on how much you want/love the property, I fell in love with our house & just wanted it.

Five of our houses have been old, from Tudor to Edwardian. All have had tie bars. No one has ever been concerned about them, some of them have been really attractive to look at design wise.

Surveyors are generally not concerned about old movement imo.

You can come out with anything, and some buyers do. The existence of an electricity substation, a nearby grave yard, the previous owner's clutter, the list of things that may put buyers off is long.
However life is too short to worry about second degree issues such as resale, you end up negotiating based on the possible views of someone who may not even exist!

Tie bars do not help with subsidence. Bulging walls tied in by bars are not a result of subsidence. Cracks and movement in doors and windows indicates the foundations are inadequate for the ground conditions. Therefore the house starts to, effectively, sink. This is not repaired by tie bars.

Cannot decide whether to sell my late mum's 2 bed terrace or to refurbish it to let. Needs some cosmetic work plus probably re-wiring, also property has a tie bar on the side which may hinder selling? Feel some sentimental attachment to the property hence uncomfortable about selling..