Seller accepted a lower offer from a buyer who hasn't sold their house rather than us FTB, what to do

[jaaadejade]

Tldr seller chose an offer which is lower than what we offered from a couple who haven't even put their house up for sale rather than our offer for £2000 more, we have no chain and offered first. What to do next?

We put in 2 offers on a house which is on the market for £155000 (but needs a lot of work hence my low first offer) which were rejected (first on the Monday at £136500 and the next on thursday for £142500), and I said I'd be back in touch shortly with another offer, the seller then recieved another offer for £4000 more a few days later from buyers who were non proceedable (had to sell their own house first) and without coming back to us to see if we'd up our offer the sellers accepted that offer and chose to take the house off the market for 6-8 weeks to see if the other couple can sell their house.

The next day we offered £6000 more than our latest offer (£148500) however this was rejected as even though we're first time buyers and have no chain she felt bad the other couple had specifically put their house on the market to buy this house so supposedly felt like she couldn't accept their offer. The seller is a widowed old lady (86) and bought this house with her husband 18 years ago however she already has a house bought with cash (so no chain) at the opposite end of the country which she wants to move to.

How do we avoid just continuously upping our offer until she can't say no or do you have any other tips to persuade her (we already emailed the estate agents a letter about us and why we'd like the house to give to her) ? We can't really wait 6-8 weeks. Someone suggested lowering our offer to match the offer she already accepted but adding that upon completion offering to pay a portion (£500) to the other couple to compensate for lost estate agents fees?

Everything I've read says not to look at houses without a mortgage in principle (which we have) or being in a position to proceed, so are we missing something? Why would a seller choose their offer for less when they aren't even able to sell any time soon? I feel like if the other couple didn't want to sell they wouldn't be looking at houses. Estate agents have been less than helpful.

@Makemineboozefree how did you frame your offer to the vendor? Was it your first and only offer and everything you could afford? Did you phone the EA to put your offer in or did you write a letter to the vendor? Sorry - really curious about the 'art' of putting in a lower offer without offending the vendor, as we have a history of offending vendors

@makemineboozefree no definitely didn't mention any of the work that needed doing. The lady was lovely and seemed very open and honest about what needed doing but we didnt disagree with that. I didn't really say much during the viewing as I was trying to remember it all so I probably didn't come across as being interested. Still it was a lovely house and made sure to tell her at the end.

@buildingthings @makemineboozefree id also like to know how you did it without offending them?

@makemineboozefree yeah I think if we got another chance that would be great, but wouldn't ever offer over our agreed limit again as clearly it doesn't always work out. I think DH thought it was our dream home and I'm quite picky so I'm never going to get everything on my list but this house had enough good stuff that I could compromise on the rest.

I don't agree that our first offer was too low and neither did the agent, based on the amount of work that needed doing

Is this the agent that the house is on the market with? If so then why don't they just value houses properly? £136500 is a long way away from £155000.

Next time you need to move quickly when you see a house that you think is your 'dream house'. Waiting days between increasing your offer is ridiculous. You must know what you are willing to pay. I agree with PP that sellers want somebody who appears to love the house because it makes you believe they are likely to be motivated buyers and not drag their feet when it comes to conveyancing etc.

I also agree with the people that said FTBs can be a bit of a pain. I accepted an offer from a FTB even though I had five offers in total at asking price or above. Theirs wasn't the highest. Then the little dweeb tried to get me to drop the price after 6 weeks for no apparent reason. It just showed his inexperience and naivete because you don't start trying to negotiate with someone in this way when you know there are a lot of other people interested in a property. He tried to threaten me with my chain collapsing. I knew it would sell again instantly so I sacked him off and went to the next person on the list. He came crawling back trying to get me to allow him to buy it at the original price. But the trust was gone and what's to stop him doing that a week before exchange? Its a business transaction so I look for straight up people who look like they will progress quickly and not play games. Incidentally I ended up getting a higher price for the house so it was all good.

@Dickybow321 probably because they want to flatter the vendor to get the business and then they try to convince the vendor to accept low offers. This is the perfect example; it didn't sell for £155k in the end, it sold for what other similar properties in the area are selling for - almost 10k below the EA estimate. Which shows that OP was right in her first estimate of 6% below similar properties on the market, just bad luck that the other couple came in higher.

I think it's a little silly not to try to negotiate hard on the biggest purchase of ones life. And also strange by the vendor to take the first offer as an insult, it should be treated as an opening to the negotiation.

If you are still interested then I would tell the Agent that. Because in my experience a lot of houses don't go to completion.
We bought our second house about 6 month after we first tried, they accepted a different offer "because they knew the buyers from school". But when those buyers fell through we were re-looking having offered and been accepted on another house as there the Vendors didn't do anything - even instruct a solicitor, and our solicitor told us after about a month to start looking again.
We actually got it less the second time that our highest offer the first time.

This is the problem with putting in a low somewhat cheeky offer. If you are happy to not get the house fine but if you really want it then don't mess around so much. I would be very reluctant to sell to somebody like you because my fear would be after survey you would try to reduce the price or maybe just before exchange or maybe would look for a bargain elsewhere in the meantime. If I had no other options and was desperate to sell I might but if a good option from somebody else and I had time I would stick to them.

I had something similar before that basically turned into a mini-auction and went with the highest price. Guess what - four weeks later they pulled out. Had second thoughts, wife didn't think it was worth that much etc.

heartsandessex yes that's a consideration too...if it goes to a bidding war you're open to people having second thoughts if they feel ripped off/they didn't get a good deal. The person you choose is so much more important than how much they're offering and i think that can be seen in how they conduct themselves during proceedings.

I think it's a little silly not to try to negotiate hard on the biggest purchase of ones life. Yes obviously negotiate but don't take days to do it if its your 'dream house'.

And also strange by the vendor to take the first offer as an insult, it should be treated as an opening to the negotiation. We don't know that she has taken it as an insult. People here are just guessing. Basically it's a business transaction and you are free to offer what you want.

the thing is the EA values the house and probably takes into account any essential work that needs doing - this is not a brand new kitchen, new carpets, new boiler and garden clearance - those are your choices once you have purchased.
Your specific requirements are not a reason to offer 20K less - and you obviously agreed as you upped your offer eventually.
If you can, try to differentiate whether the boxes left unticked on your wishlist are enough to put you off the house. A very cheeky offer on a solid house that has no major problems is very offputting for the vendor.

Honestly- think you probably insulted her with the first offer and then upping it hugely - happened to me as a seller and just didn’t want to sell to them whatever they offered. I know the general advice is that the first offer should be insulting but it isn’t acceptable in every location - it wouldn’t work in the local market here - likewise it isn’t unusual to find a house and then sell yours - my guess is you read it wrongly.

She probably also has scrumples and has accepted an offer and wants to stick with it.

Advice - walk away, find another house and that one will work out

Making an offer is just the start. You really shouldn't get attached until you've got the survey back and then maybe having to renegotiate. I've made offers on properties where there has been woodworm, extensive damp, a roof which has huge gaps missing tiles and over a hundred years old which needed replacing urgently etc etc and the vendor would not move on price.

Just to add to the stories, we went with a lower offer when selling our place as well. There was a cash buyer who was offering full price but it was going to be an investment property for him, he didn't live anywhere nearby, and we just got a feeling that he might mess us around and not complete the sale because he wasn't really interested. I also could have seen him lowering his price later on in the process.

Instead we took a small hit and sold to a very keen FTB who could get a start the way we did. Sometimes it's just based on a feeling and it's not always fair.

If you are outside the U.K. would it not be better to rent for 6 months or so and then you’ll have more time and easier to buy.

@simonbridges we are moving back to the UK any time between now and a year from now but we ideally need to buy by the end of this year for various reasons. We are quite lucky that accommodation would be provided near my husbands job, we just don't know where he'll be. So we do have a bit of time, but is there such a thing as a perfect house though? I've discounted a lot of houses because of some little thing but should I be waiting for a gut feeling which says this is a dream house?

Are the little things fixable? I don’t believe in dream houses, at least as something attainable for most people. It really depends on your standards and what you consider little things.

@jaaadejade
the seller then recieved another offer for £4000 more a few days later from buyers who were non proceedable (had to sell their own house first) and without coming back to us to see if we'd up our offer the sellers accepted that offer and chose to take the house off the market for 6-8 weeks to see if the other couple can sell their house.

The next day we offered £6000 more than our latest offer (£148500) however

This is gazumping. When an offer is accepted and another buyer puts forward an offer it is called gazumping. Perfectly legal in England but not regarded as very polite.

I'm sure you would have been upset if someone did it to you.

@s0upertrooper we didn't find out the amount the other couple had offered (which did turn out to be less) until afterwards when the estate agents rang to say she'd accepted the other offer. When we put the offer in on the Tuesday we were told she was considering an offer so we went with the most we could. If we'd have been told she had accepted their offer I wouldn't have put another in. If we'd have known she had accepted their offer and what price it was then it would have been gazumping but since we had no idea, it was just another offer in a bidding war.

Walk away

I'm guessing she is worried that you'll put in a higher offer to secure it but come back later in the process and chip away/try to renegotiate given your lower offer end comment the house needs works. She may be offended but I think it's more she is wary of your intentions...sorry. If the other family love it and offered a price she was happy with straightaway she may feel more confident.

No, you didn’t gazump - you would have, if the lady would have accepted your offer after accepting the offer she was contend with first - but she didn‘t, because she stuck to her guns.
Would you really have walked away and not put in your highest offer after you‘d known an offer was accepted?
I personally think, people would still put forward their highest bid and hope to swing the vendor their way.
But that‘s life... and quite often buying a house is a mere business transaction.

Also, don't believe a word of what the estate agent says.

They are fucking shocking

The housing market is very sluggush at the moment - very possible the other buyers wont get any offers on theirs quickly - so they may come back to you in due course. I wonder if the fact that you are abroad has put them off - makes it sound a bit more complicated? Do you need a mortgage to buy and is it all arranged? Might be complications if you have been abroad for a while and getting paid in a foreign country?

Nothing surprises me about the buying and selling process. I’ve had low and high offers accepted and declined. I’ve had buyers vanish on me, buyers seem reasonable and then pull stunts at the eleventh hour and lost sales.

I’ve had offers accepted after other buyers have played silly bees. And on one house I got an offer accepted ahead of others because I’d driven a successful completion on a previous property through sheer patience and tenacity and gained a great reputation with the estate agents who happened to be selling this other house a few years down the road.

Don’t take it personally. Move on and stay critically detached. There’s no such thing as a perfect dream house. Find one you can afford without a huge struggle in a location that you like. You’ll change so much more than you ever expect, especially on your first home.