Loss of privacy

[ZandathePanda]

We have the planner coming round tonight. We live on the edge of a town next to farmland (in England) so it's quiet and dark. The garden is private other than the neighbour's bedroom window looking over part. We have a bungalow at the bottom of the garden to us. The architect owner is going to build a 2 storey modern floor to ceiling windowed house. The windows/doors will totally look over our garden and the back of our house. It will have an open plan first floor living/kitchen/dining room and large garden terrace. Because our garden dips at the bottom no amount of screening will stop it as it would have to be at least 4m tall to hide. It's going to illuminate us at night and we are going to see their every move. He's the local award winning architect. All the councillors know him. Our house (which he designed a couple of decades ago) didn't even have a back door into the garden (until we put one in) and has velux windows upstairs so we don't overlook our garden (we have not got round to making one a dormer). A town councillor said we are 4m too long in distance building to building for our case for overlooking. They all know him.
We have no chance do we?

Usually there's a 'main frontage to boundary' distance - you might find your council has a 'design guide' of some sort (often called a supplementary planning document or guide) that puts recommended distances in. I agree with others - the first floor terrace overlooking your garden sounds completely unacceptable.

I do think that you need to look at some strategic trees. And, indeed, I think that you might want to look at what is permissible under permitted develompent rights in terms of garden buildings - you might decide that it is worth building yourself a nice summer house or garden office with it's back about 2m away from the boundary in question... Off the top of my head I think that they can be 4m to the ridge but you'd need to check that.

I can't see why anyone would want a glass wall and dining terrace that overlook someone's garden and the back of their house.

If 20m is fine, then get that dormer window in and make your door a patio one. I can't imagine not having access both physical and visual from the house to your own garden.

You can pay a planning consultant to look at things for you - it may be modifyable. Or you could use that money to employ a garden designer - put in trees at the bottom, and also areas of shrubbery dotted around the garden that would provide privacy for seating areas etc. (Put a washing line in behind the shrubbery for their view, or a composting system). It depends on how big your garden is as to how workable it would be.

If ever there was a case for leylandii, this is it. Is it a hedge if it is not planted in a line on the edge? If it has room it just keeps growing. We have some about 10m+ tall, away from the bottom of our garden - it just keeps growing. Likewise Eucalyptus, although that spreads out more which is a nuisance. It doesn't affect us as we are well away from it and the sun is on our side - must be boring from the reverse. Plant a couple and make it your utility area.

Plant some Leylandi at the bottom of your garden and pray they grow quickly. In the meantime, get privacy film fitted to all your neighbour-facing windows.

I second that you need an independent planning consultant.

They can support you in making your case to the Council.

If you go down the tree route I would recommend Eucalyptus (gummi?) prettier than Leylandii - look like normal leafy trees, quite cheap and grow very quickly indeed.

I would imagine that he has designed it to be legal. His land he can do what he wants I am afraid. Just got get some fast growing trees tomorrow. Preferably ones that will block out as much light as possible. Serves him right.

Eucalyptus does grow very fast - we have one near us that I thought must be at least 50 years old and it was in fact less than 10. They do spread out a lot though and will go over the neighbours. They are evergreen though so will block winter light, and attract birds like pigeons and magpies for nesting. They are nice foliage plants if you cut them back every year.

Leylandii goes more straight up, although it will still need plenty horizontal space too to do its job if you want to let it rip. They are really unfashionable so architects hate them. You also get a lot of pigeons cavorting in them and magpies. No need for a hedge - just position one or three in a strategic block.

It will probably worth consulting a consultant to see what can be done. Planning has rules, but people who know them work them to their advantage. It is like a game of chess. When you see them in action, you wonder what the rules actually do . However, there is something to be said for giving in once you know your position, and using the money elsewhere.

I would also get those overlooking windows in - dormer windows can be quite high so not affect your own privacy, but they still look like they are overlooking and you can stick cardboard figures around them occasionally, or abstract curtains with eye patterns.

Thank you for your kind messages everyone. I can't quite believe what a neighbour can do. It would be refused if it was an extension as it doesn't fit the criteria but as a 'innovative' new build it's 'anything goes'.

Sorry to hear of your situation. I have nothing to add to the advice given, other than to be wary about planting a Eucalyptus near to a house. Beautiful as they are they have a wide root spread. Sadly we’ve just had one cut down that was planted too near to our house.
However, it might seem appealing to plant one near the proposed house.

Has the architect bothered to talk to you about your concerns? Have you approached him at all? If you have and you're still not getting anywhere, I'd be inclined to go to the local paper and complain that you're worried you're not getting a fair hearing from the council because they're all friends with the architect. Because it does seem as if no one is taking notice of your valid concerns.

Just an update to say a councillor has 'called it in' and its being looked at more thoroughly by the planners. Nobody round here has garden terraces as everybody uses their gardens. I always thought they were an urban thing. And they are contentious in towns for overlooking too. It has huge first floor terraces surrounding the property which, by their admission, are for social occasions with extended family.

We invited the architect round and they told us they could design a summerhouse that matched their house. Aside from the cost, we have pointed out this won't work as our garden dips at the bottom - they'll look over its roof and then the whole of our garden. They told us they don't want us to plant leylandii.
We would like to stay on good terms with them as they will be our neighbours but not to the extent we have to watch their every move (and they look down at us) and our pitch black garden to be lit up at night.

Eucalyptus trees as above are a good shout, they grow like billy o. Any breakdown in relationship is due to them though, I’m not sure how they thought you’d be ok with this.
Just get trees planted ASAP so by the time it’s built you’ve got some privacy. What’s the alternative if they won’t change their plans? They’re CF’s expecting anything else.

Of course they don't want you to plant trees - they will block their light! Ha - you have control back of your life and privacy. Be quite clear with them. If they put plans in that reduce your privacy, then you will be planting to ensure you are not overlooked.

They can change their plans so they have no windows or terrace overlooking you, and you will have no need for trees.

This is a positive thing for you! I have a similar thing, but planting trees would mean I lose my afternoon / evening sun (lunchtime would be fine though).

They told us they don't want us to plant leylandii. [evil cackle] Of course they don't - they want control over uninterrupted views and SUN.

And make sure you have pp for perfectly normal windows overlooking your own garden and the terrace, like everyone expects to have. You can bet a pound to a penny that if it is ok for them to have an overlooking terrace, the planners will find a reason you cannot have perfectly normal windows overlooking in the future.

Why does he want your summer house to match his house and he wants you to pay for it???? He isn't giving much is he. CF.

(Not as bad as the CF boundary dispute neighbour of a friend, who in the name of compromise, offered that DF could buy her own garden back at £xK. He is trying though.)

I think you will find that it’s the Council’s planning committee who are calling it in! It means they will not let the designated planner decide it on local policy. The committee wants a more detailed look at it.

However, you have to understand that it must meet planning requirements. They cannot make it up as they go along. Being overlooked from a distance rarely means a design will be turned down, new or extension, and you can plant a few trees but remember a hedge should not be over 2m.

Regarding an appeal. It seems the Council think they will lose. They can be asked for costs if they vexatiously turn down a reasonable application. Of course it costs money to defend their decision and if it’s in line with their policy, they cannot defend turning it down and the Inspector will give permission anyway. If the Planning Officer recommends approval, it’s poor use of scarce resources trying to defend the indefensible. It really matters not one jot who knows who. Planners know all the decent local architects. Architectural merit doesn’t trump all planning policies but must be assessed regarding quality of design. You could ask that they include a privacy glass balcony around the terrace for example. Or Venetian style fencing. 2 m high.

20m is over 60 ft. Many roads are not as wide as this. You can plant trees as others have suggested and you must be totally aware of the planning policies so you can mount a challenge. Obviously contact your local Councillor for the Borough Council who decides the application. However, if you have been told it meets guidelines, it does.

Regarding building new homes in general, yes people can build larger houses. Some people have Range Rovers. Does this make them awful people? They probably pay lots of tax so support the NHS more then lower income families. We all aspire to earn quite a lot and enjoy our large homes that we have worked for. Why do people always pick on the better off?

BubblesBuddy It is a shame the plan doesn't consider the impact it has on the neighbours as it would be so easy to design one that didn't. To think I was worried about putting a small shed at the bottom of the garden in case the bedroom of the bungalow could see it!