Is a downstairs loo really that important

[PenguindreamsofDraco]

...if it then eats up 4' of the kitchen?

We are trying to sort out the downstairs of our house. Tall 5 bed place with 2 bathrooms upstairs. The kitchen is currently about 21' long and once the chimney breast is removed, 10' wide.

We don't have a loo downstairs and we were wondering whether to install one, but the only way to do it would be to move the kitchen wall in by about 4' and squeeze it in there, so the new kitchen would be same width but about 17' long.

We were looking to have an eating and seating area at the far end, basically the last 7' or so. So that would mean the working space in the kitchen to include cabinets and all appliances, would be about 10' by 10'.

My husband is now convinced this will be far too small for a large house and we should drop the idea of a loo. I am worried that a tall house needs a loo downstairs and with clever use of the space with a lush Higham kitchen, all will be well.

Any kitchen buffs who have any views or who fancy redesigning my ground floor ? Thank you!

I would definitely make it fit somewhere. You'll regret not having one!

Now I have a downstairs loo I don't think I'd buy a house without one (or at least with the room to put one in).

Total deal breaker with me , wouldn't contemplate a house without a downstairs loo , have you seen the loos with the wash basin included in the cistern ? Space saver idea, personally I'm not a big fan but they do mean that you can make the cubical even smaller - might help you in this case ?

I wouldn't buy a house that didn't have a downstairs loo.

Yes definitely. In addition to visitors and practical side, if anyone in your house becomes temporarily or permenantly disabled/has difficulty with stairs it is a life saver.

Broken leg from skiing, twisted ankle from football, aged grandparents.

For the same reason, a lack of one can deter buyers if they have family who may need a downstairs loo.

We also have one under the stairs (Victorian house) that opens directly into the dining bit of the kitchen diner. We’ve never used it as a loo but we did put a cat flap in the door as it was a good out of sight place for the litter tray! Honestly I would have preferred the storage, there wasn’t a single downstairs cupboard but didn’t rip out the bathroom as figured it might devalue the house. We now rent it out whilst we’re abroad on an expat assignment and the agent reckons it’s worth about an extra £200 per month as a result. But no a downstairs loo wouldn’t be a dealbreaker for me, seems like I’m in the minority though.

Our kitchen is just over 17" by 12", reducing to 9" in a 3 bed house. That is with a slightly underused layout. I curse the people who put it in because it's beautiful and expensive, but they got a few practical things very wrong, and we could never afford to put them right to the same standard.

It has room for a dining table (we have a sideboard instead as we have a separate dining room too), breakfast bar seating 4, double oven, American fridge freezer, dishwasher, washing machine etc, and lots and lots of cupboards, drawers and shelves. I think you'd have no problem designing a good kitchen in that space, but think very hard about practicalities!

Our kitchen definitely has the wow factor at that size btw - when we were looking, people were very jealous!

As to whether a downstairs loo is necessary - we hadn't lived without one until we moved here. It's something we can live without (will install one under the stairs when we get a chance), but I think it's silly to say you need the extra kitchen space.

Definitely get the loo. I think a large house needs one, and you'll be glad of it once it's there.

This isn't helping, I was hoping for a consensus one way or the other

We haven't missed one in the 4 years we've been in the house, and we are looking to stay for 10+ years (more potentially if house prices fall). It's that worry about trying to future proof any sale I guess.

Obviously there are some who wouldn't look at it, fabulous kitchen notwithstanding. But then I guess the kitchen might not be so fabulous in 10 years and anyone coming in would be able to see that there is space, if they want to rip the kitchen out and start again. Although God knows why anyone would. I'm about ready to kill the builders and they haven't so much as touched a brick yet

There's a certain section on MN who could not contemplate life without a downstairs loo/utility room/ensuite.

I lived for several decades without any of the above and only acquired a downstairs loo a few years ago. I personally don't use it because I think using the stairs is a good form of exercise!

And I managed to toilet train DC without one. If we had guests round, I'd simply shut bedroom doors before they arrived!

Of course there is the eternal MN dilemma of what to do if a tradesman or Waitrose delivery driver wants to poo in your loo but it hasn't occured often enough in my life to make me opt for a smaller kitchen.

Really don't like loos off kitchens. I would rather do without.

Not having a downstairs loo was why neither my parents nor DH's parents could come to visit us for the last 15 years of their lives

Definitely put one in - you have a very long kitchen anyway, and you don't need that much space for a loo and hand basin.

I would look at what your neighbours/similar houses nearby have got. If they mostly have downstairs loos you will be the odd one out when selling.

Could you carve it off the rear reception (is that the dining room) instead of off the kitchen?

I take it you're not doing a side return extension? If you did then the kitchen would probably end up 21' x 16' ish and you could afford to lose the loo space from it, and still have space for eating and sitting too. I don't know how much extra a side return would cost over and above what you're doing already, but I'd prioritise that over eg higham kitchen and other top end fittings. (sorry!)

Yes to the loo. 2.5 bathrooms for a 5 bed is right too

Also, if no little ones and just for breakfast etc, I’d do a breakfast bar rather than enough room for a table and chairs

We had a loo in the utility room, but it was too gross. No downstairs loo now, no problem.

We've done loads of alterations to our house including extension, conservatory, loft conversion, landscape garden, new kitchen, new bathrooms etc and the 2 best and most used changes were the addition of the downstairs loo and the loft conversion.

It's important to me.

DP's rejected the idea of one in the 1980s when they had an extension. They have regretted it ever since and now in their eighties it's a real struggle to get up and down the stairs several times a day.

@BIWI - this is a sincere question, but why couldn't your parents use the upstairs loo? Was it because of heart or joint problems?

I'm asking because my parents both died before reaching old age/infirmity.

So much food for thought, thank you all. Who knew a downstairs loo thread would prove so popular

We came and went on the side return extension but ultimately in a MN dogwhistle special, decided to spend the extra money on school fees If only I could throw in a parking space dilemma and I'd reach peak MN.

And if absence of a downstairs loo prevents the ILs from visiting, that is but the cherry on the cake.

@PenguindreamsofDraco We had this debate when we did a side return extension on our Victorian terrace in London (5 bedroom, 3 upstairs bathrooms). I wasn't 100% convinced it was necessary but we had space and my DM was insistent it'd be useful so we went for it.... and we're so glad we did! We use it all the time. We were just commenting the other day about how it was the right choice.

It was especially useful when I was pregnant, and for when tradesman etc need to use a toilet. Also it will be helpful for potty training for DS.

Now when I look at houses (not that we're moving) I always check for a downstairs WC and would be actively put off a house which doesn't have one.

I'd have a downstairs loo at all costs!

What about if you used some nifty built in storage for seating for part of the kitchen table? That saves lots of space. Might help fit it all in?

Something like this:

@DaisyArcher - MIL couldn't get up our stairs (which are narrow and quite steep) because she had serious balance and inner ear problems. My DF couldn't get up because he had a bad back.

It was a real shame, and made it very difficult to see either set of parents very frequently, as they both lived 200+ miles away, which meant that my DC didn't really have much of a relationship with either set of grandparents.

Withouttea, yes, that is exactly what I want - an L shaped bench area with storage inside. I'm having trouble convincing my husband, who is very tall, and thinks he'd be uncomfortable but I will prevail

I think downstairs toilets are great & wouldn't buy a house without one. That said, however, my absolute pet hate in a house is a toilet off the kitchen, so in your case, I'd have a fabulous kitchen & no downstairs toilet.

I'd check building regs as I'm sure you have to have 2 doors separating a kitchen and toilet, so that might make the decision for you.

A downstairs loo is very handy, but I see your point about having a roomy kitchen in a big house. I wouldn't say it's vital as long as there is more than one other toilet in the house. Could you build on a small back lobby with one in or squeeze one into the hallway or under stairs cupboard?