Door lock help

[mrsglowglow]

Long shot but thought I'd ask mumsnet.

Locked our front door last night and put the security chain on. It's one where there is a flat bit in the middle of the chain that you slide out to open again.

We then have an inner door to the porch that we locked last night.

Came down this morning and we cannot open the inner door. The key is in there but will not turn or come out. We cannot open the front door from outside as the chain is on.

All our shoes are in the porch. We had to go out this morning all wearing flip flops we keep by our back door!

Can anyone tell me if there is a way to sort this out without calling a locksmith? I've googled but the chain we have seems impossible to open from the outside. If we could get in to the porch we could maybe try opening the inner door from the other side. I can't believe we are in this mess!

Can you cut the chain with bolt cutters from the outside?

the inner door, where the key is jammed. Is it a Eurolock? and is it a plastic door?

If you can open the outer door enough to see the chain, you could cut it with a pair old bolt croppers. Chains very in quality and thickness. They are difficult to cut with a hacksaw because they don't stay still while you cut them. There is probably a burglar's technique to wedge them still with a block of wood, but I expect a burglar would kick the door and wrench the screws out.

Some photos, inside and out, would help.

Can you put some WD40 on the lock?

Than you. Yes I think it will be bolt cutters for the chain. A couple of photos are enclosed. I'm not sure if it's a eurolock.

We've sprayed with wd40 and also tried ice cubes on the key. Saw this on Google!

is the inner door wooden?

Does the key go into a cylinder shaped like the one in my link? (and like in your outer door?)

Does the handle on your inner door lift upwards to operate the locking mechanism?

The inner door is wooden and the key does go in a cylinder shape. The handle is not connected to the lock.

if you have a pair of pruning loppers that you are willing to sacrifice, they might cut through the chain.

loppers

An old blunt pair will probably work just as well as a new pair. The blade will have a nasty notch in it afterwards.

If you have to buy some, a cheap pair will do the job, because the chain is much thinner than any useful bolt.

Screwfix may be open until 4pm today

if it's not a Eurolock, and the handle does not operate multipoint locking, you can snap out the old cylinder with a Mole Wrench, or drill it out. There are numerous utube vids. A locksmith or carpenter would do the same. a trick used by some "24 hour emergency locksmiths" is to spend 59 minutes examining the lock, and pretending to try to pick it, then, as soon as they are into the second chargeable hour, they explain your lock is very high quality and is pick-proof, get out their cordless drill and zip through the cylinder. The actual job takes about a minute when you know how. A new cylinder is available for a few pounds (see my earlier link) or more for better quality ones.

Thank you! yes we got the chain snapped using loppers. The door still wouldn't open from the other side and we have managed to snap the key from trying to turn it. We are going to attempt to drill out the lock. Thanks for your help 😊

Just to update, we drilled the lock but still can't get the bolt to turn. This has turned into a bank holiday from hell! My dad is now going to attempt sawing through the actual bolt.

ah

sorry to hear that

at the end of the cylinder, where it's drilled out, may be a bar or other part that can be rotated (same way as the key was turned to unlock)

It is also possible to snap off the end of the cylinder using mole grips if you have them (see "eurocylinder lock snapping" on utube)

when the cylinder is broken and pulled out, an L-shaped lever can be pushed down the hole and turned to push the bolt mechanism back.

now that it has been weakened by drilling, and the protect rose removed, it should not be too hard to snap the cylinder (Eurocylinders are partly cut through in the middle when they are made)

like this

I am not a great lover of cylinder locks, especially Eurocylinders.

Some are available with improvements to reduce their vulnerability.

How's it going, OP? Security is a modern nightmare, I half scare myself
witless checking and rechecking that I have keys on me before I leave the house.

We got it opened eventually but only by sawing the bolt using an electric saw. We tried the mole grips to get the cylinder out but just wouldn't budge. Had planned on a nice day in the garden but instead blood sweat and tears in a stuffy hallway! At least we did it without a locksmith! Tomorrow is another day and we will look at getting the cylinder out and replacing as well as a new chain. Been put off ever locking that door again!

I meant to add thank you Piglet for all your helpful advice and links . I'm not a lover of cylinder locks either!

Good morning, well we managed to remove the lock. Just wondered if anyone has experience of putting a new one in? We are off to buy the parts and it seems straightforward but I know there won't be any instructions. Any tips to avoid problems would be very grateful!

too late now, as I expect you've already left, but the trick is to buy one exactly the same size as the old one. The same brand will often, but not always, be the same size.

Yours is a vertical Sashlock.

The case is most often about two and a half inches wide, which depending on the manufacturer is 65mm, 67mm, 68mm
The other measurement is the backset, which is the distance from the front edge of the lock (the fore-end) and the centre of the keyhole and/or handle spindle hole.

The height of the lock case is important, but doesn't vary so much.

The red-cased Union British Standard lock is a good one, and good value.

In a wooden door, you can have a five-lever lock with a key of traditional shape, that's the same size as the case with a Eurocylinder. Plastic doors are usually different as they have multi-point mechanisms that usually only fit one make and model, and are intended to work with a Eurocylinder. ERA make a 5-lever multipoint mechanism, I don't know another.

5-lever BS locks go wrong much less often than Eurocylinders, are are not vulnerable to the common easy attacks.

here's a typical manufacturer's drawing showing the dimensions. Many online suppliers include the dimensions, or you can look them up on the manufacturer's website

ecat.assaabloy.co.uk/Resourse.aspx?ref=/gallery/UNION/Mortice_Locks/Line_drawings/SB_Euro_Sash.jpg&ft=.jpg&mh=420&mw=1020

So pleased we got it done and all working ok!
We went for the closest match to the existing as you advised Piglet. Tried Homebase, b&q and wickes but they all were slightly different measurements. We got everything eventually in toolstation for £30 including a new security chain. It's a Yale cylinder lock and a euro profile sash lock. The only problem is the new strike plate that came with the sash lock is a different shape to the existing gap in the frame. We've put the old one back on for now although it's a little battered and will try and find a new one that matches so we don't have to start chisseling and filling the frame. The rose protectors are also a little scratched and the door edge suffered a few dents but we can live with that.

We probably saved ourselves about £300 in locksmiths fees plus I finally understand how a lock works! Thanks again for your help.

what make was the old one?

(will usually be stamped on the fore-end, or on the decorative cover plate if there is one.)

Is the difference in the staple that one has a round end and the other a square end?

Thanks piglet, we found one online from easylocks. Haven't received it yet but the measurements and photos seem the same. The original was stamped All bees which looks to be a trade business but couldn't see that they stock these things separately to the locks. Also discovered they are called box keeps!