How stressful is it managing a major project?

[ilovewinterpansies]

We are looking to upsize. We can either buy an end of terrace 4 bed in beautiful condition or a 5 bed semi that needs a lot of work.

If we buy the doer upper, it will take 12-18 months and cost about £200-£250k. We'd rent nearby during this time.

I know some people love a project but we both work full time and have 3 very young DC. Plus we have never done anything remotely like this before so we are proper newbies. Life is busy enough but we are so tempted with the possibility of the perfect forever house!!

WWYD? Everyone says the worst part of renovating is living in it, but we wouldn't have to do that. But project managing something like this is stressful, is it not? Argghhh...very torn!!!

I'm managing an extension and new garage project in our house and trying to juggle that with work is very stressful, but as I work from home, it's down to me to deal with it all. I wouldn't take on a whole house if I had a job as well.

@delilahbucket presumably you're living in it as well?

I work from home too about half the time, but I'd obviously not be working in the project house as we'd be renting closeby.

I project managed an extension / rejig of our house. Had a brilliant builder though who helped by giving me advance notice of meetings decisions / goods etc. If you don't have a wonderful builder it will be a nightmare.

I was on a 4 day week at that point and all children at school. I could be on hand each morning (builder arrived at 7.30, I didn't need to leave until iish) and I met him most Fridays (my day off - without kids) to chat through progress / next steps / snagging. There are often decisions that have to be made quickly (are you contactable at work?) and as we were living there, problems were immediately apparent & easily fixed (how often would you be able to get back to site if you're not living there?). I also really enjoyed the planning - kitchen / bathroom/ lights / floor etc and could dedicate time to it in the evenings? Do you enjoy it?

Depending on all those things, and given the budget, I would consider using a professional project manager. If they charged say 5% - 10% of the budget (£10-20k) it may be money well spent. They can often make that back by generating savings on things / deals that you (as a lay person) wouldn't have access to.

Sorry, you have £250k to spend on doing the house up? Plus you can afford to rent on top of that as well? How much is the house! Sounds like you can afford a professional PM. I certainly would in your situation.

I’ve done 3 major renovations and a new build, but all on a shoe string doing the majority of work ourselves, with a new born, camping out in 1 room or in a teeny damp caravan. It was extreme stress on another level. But it was the financial stress more than anything, which sounds like you may not have that worry. A PM would be worth every penny.

I am project managing our renovation while working full time. It is extremely stressful at times, but I am an obsessively organised project manager and constantly think about it, so I don’t think I could do it any other way. We’re also DIY-ing as much as we can, so it’s a slog.

namechangedtoday is right about you needing a good builder. We did not. It was hell. Thankfully we’re past that bit!

You absolutely need a professional project manager

It's one thing overseeing a new kitchen but a whole house refurb is not the time to cut your teeth on your organisation skills

And even if you are naturally very organised, you're not going to have a clue when to coordinate trades and materials, and when to chase suppliers and when to crack the whip on the builders.

It will inevitably cost you more in the long run if you end up PMing yourself and overrun, so have to pay extra rent, extra trades and rush jobs on suppliers

Thanks all. Some excellent advice here. Sounds like I would need a project manager as it really would be too much for me to do especially given my inexperience with this stuff.

How does it work - are they tied in with the builders? And presumably they visit everyday and keep an eye on stuff...but wouldn't I want to do that anyway to an extent?

Do not get a project manager tied in with the builders.
You want someone who will work for you and have your back when making major decisions.
Make sure you get someone who can think outside the box, is not afraid to tell the builder " I know for a fact that Mrs XXX will not want what you doing done that way.
Have a sit down with the PM and outlines for plans and goals for the house and in particular for each room.
Your biggest obstacle will be the kitchen and here is where you will need the PM to know what you are looking for and how you see your kitchen when completed.
He/She need to have strong communication skills and should be a visionary.
One last thing do a lot of research, especially where tiling is concerned.
For tiling you need someone who specific job is just tiling, you don't need someone who is a jack of all traders. A good tiler should be able to look at room and visualize from your description how the tiles should be laid out and compliment the room.
Good luck because you are going to need it.

@ilovewinterpansies we are living in the house too, but that isn't the issue. It's the coordination, organisation, cracking the whip, losing a whole day trying to find matching stone, answering the constant questions. We have really good builders as well.

Even if you employ a project manager you would still need to be making lots of decisions quickly as things come up. Another option would be to employ a building firm who would project manage themselves.

I am an experienced architect who has project managed multi billion pound international projects and the most stressful one was my house refurb (£120k refurb of Victorian villa)
We lived in it whilst it was done, it came in under budget and is wonderful now but despite knowing what I was doing, I had to deal with one disastrous contractor (the vast majority were great) and a few unexpected items.
The inability to distance yourself from it both physically and emotionally is difficult and makes objective decision making harder than when you are doing it for someone else. The mess and how long things can take is frustrating.
I think if you are not confident and are taking on a comparatively expensive project you need to hire a project manager.
Don't think of the cost as an added expense but more of an integral cost - mistakes made because you don't know what you are doing will probably cost you more.
Get them involved before you hire a contractor as they will help you choose the right one which is key to a successful project.
I've changed my practice now (family & health) and do a lot of domestic renovations, extensions and small houses, all quite high end and they are stressful to manage as the outcome matters so much to the clients and is very personal.

Also whatever you do be prepared for a million decisions even if you get somebody else to manage them because there will be loads.
It's ok to say I don't know what do you recommend? to PM's & contractors - you don't have to agree with what they say but it might give you a steer in the right direction
Remember delaying decisions can have a knock on effect and cost money.

I'm a qualified pm and still got a builder in to pm. He has all the contracts and has made some amazing decisions we wouldn't have thought of. He messages me to check if can talk and we pop to see him on site once every few weeks.

Why pay 200k for a fifth bedroom. Regardless of where you are that will buy you a 5th bedroom without the need to do a refurb!

I'm guessing the 5bed semi has more living and outside space than the 4bed terrace.

We went from a lovely 5 bed terrace to a 5 bed semi - the latter is nearly 3 times the size of the terrace internally with about 200 times the garden

Have to agree with Mellie - you're essentially paying 200k for a fifth bedroom, why not use that money to buy a different house that doesn't need doing up?

Do you need a 5th bedroom? I‘d go for the 4-bed house in your situation. I have managed a few building projects - especially house renovations and they are far more stressful than new-builds! And your budget screams major renovation, not just a new bathroom/ kitchen and re-decoration. Personally, I wouldn’t tackle a project like that myself while having to be comitted to a full-time job AND 3 young children! It will completely destroy your family life for the next 2 years, as you will have to be on site for decisions at least once a day, plus all the stress that goes with a building project/ dealing with trades, suppliers and budgets. You can never get back the stress-free time with your young kids, that you will miss out on! Would the house be really worth all of this?

I was in your position a few years ago. Our architect did the project management for us and our was excellent. We bought a doer-uper and it took about 14 months for a full renovation. Cost 300k. It's now the home we always wanted and we specified everything in it. Worth the stress but could not have done without the architect...

I’m managing a total refit plus extension. I work very part time but study full time. It’s easy as pie. But then I don’t find these things stressful. However, make sure if it’s between you and your partner one or the other manages it. Otherwise you constantly need to have conversations. Have you told this one that/have you paid this invoice/have you researched this. IMO easier to manage yourself.

Do you have (young) children Whatdo? It may just be me, but I was fine at coping with work, study, life, DIY and builders pre kids!! Now not so much

You obviously can afford a pm...get one!

I would say not as you have young DCs - it is 18 months of their eearly life you will not get back again. As there is another option go for that.

We bought a doer up when our 3 DC were 6, 4 and a couple of months. DH away so all decisions mine. I wasn’t working as had the baby. It was meant to cost around 200k but ended up being double that! So check finances. We had a good architect that project managed. I’d highly recommend this option. I met with architect every few weeks and was on the end of the phone when they discovered issues. We rented initially and then moved in when the main part was completed. The only stress was finance - worrying about the costs!! Lots of decisions (location & number of sockets etc) have to be made before you go to tender. I enjoyed making it totally ours. Living out great decision but get a good architect that can project manage!!

Thanks everyone.

Been doing a lot of thinking and we are going to park the idea. We don't have much bandwidth at the moment with work and the children and finances would be too tight for comfort.

A bit gutted as it would be amazing. But I think the stress might finish me off!! And we are lucky to be able to buy a 4 bed end of terrace which will still be very comfortable for the five of us.

Some fantastic advice on here as always...really helps to hear your experiences!! Thanks everyone.