Appeal planning application refusal un-neighbourly enclosure

[tnooo]

Hello,

We have currently had a planning application for a double storey side and rear extension refused.

We were only refused on one issue alone, which was the first floor rear extension, and the only point given was un-neighbourly enclosure. The proposed extension, does not cause loss of light, shadowing onto the current neighbouring property or limit the outlook of the neighbour from first floor windows.

My question is, this one point seems to be quite subjective, how would this be argued?

Has anyone had experience with arguing this successfully with councils before, if so what policies, rules did you cite.

Thank you in advance!

Did your neighbour raise an objection?

I think I'd be asking the council what they mean by "un-neighbourly enclosure"!

They did for the first set of plans, which we changed to reflect this. They did not object to the second amended plans.

The council are saying the double storey side will be too long at 11.4 meters. However, they have allowed other applications with 11.7 meters. We did include these plans as precedents, they don't seem to have accepted it.

Have you read the officers report to see what they say the harm is? Un neighbourly suggests that there would be some harm to the neighbouring property..

It is just stated as un-neighbourly enclosure.

With a double storey side and first floor back extension, the length of the extension becomes 11.4 meters. They are claiming this is too long and will cause un-neighbourly enclosure. However, as stated before, the council have allowed double storey extensions longer than this. And we have provided evidence of these in our application.

The issue with taking it to the appeal is, I am made to believe the decision for the appeal will be based on whether the case officer applied the right policy. So the appeal might be refused because technically it's subjective.

What does your architect think? It would be worth getting the advice of a planning consultant if you haven’t already. 11 m double storey extension sounds huge so it may just be deemed too big for the plot/neighbourhood. How does your house compare to the one granted 11.7 m?

I would go to appeal, we had s single storey extension refused due a neighbour complaint, revised the plans and paid a planning consultant, the council just turned it down again. We went to appeal and it all went through.

Our proposed plan is almost identical to the house that was granted.

I suppose they are saying in a non-direct way that it is big, but it's not something which hasn't been accepted before on our street and on adjacent streets. I think the neighbour complaining initially had an impact on their decision, but with the amended plans, we didn't think it would have been a problem and the neighbour didn't complain for those. Also, the planning case officer's report didn't reflect which set of plans the complaints were received. So we also want to draw attention to that as part of the appeal.

I mean, I know of the 45/60 degree rule with out-looking, shadow mapping etc. So I was wondering, is there a certain rule which can be applied here?

I should add, the neighbour has a single storey extension, theirs is 12.2 meters and actually extends further than ours. Also they have very high ceilings, so the difference in height between their extension and our proposed extensions is 2 meters. Also they have not built on the boundary and neither are we, so there is no terracing effect. None of their windows look onto our extension, other than a blurred staircase window.

With the way the shadows move as well, their property casts a shadow on ours. Currently, we have the pleasure of staring out onto a massive wall from our kitchen window.

Is it more of a problem that as a side extension the whole street view will be effected?

No, no problem with the side extension. As more than half the houses on the street have this sort of double storey extension and it has become part of the street scene and a precedent.

It's the overall length; hence, the first floor back extension. I think if it was perhaps 9-10m they would be ok with it. But then, we lose out on an extra bedroom, which is important for us.

We brought our property 1.5 years ago. Prices have begun to drop, it's scary for us to think we will already be in negative equity when we need to remortgage, so we want to add as much value to the property as we can. We are also a growing family.

What in neighbourly enclosure? It's not a term I've ever come across before. Does it mean they have an RoL claim?

This seems to be a loose phrase that requires some clarification. The height of the first floor extension might be the problem so maybe your Architect can reduce the height and put in roof lights? This is what usually happens around here. Ground floors are going into the ground to reduce the overall height. Is this possible?

If it is an “identical” extension to others, is it exactly the same height and volume or bigger? This is almost certainly a volume problem. What proportion of your garden is taken up by the extension? Is it overwhelming?

One objection doesn’t carry much weight. It is how the Case Officer is interpreting the policy that matters. If you are totally sure of your design and you feel unable to reduce the volume further, appeal. You will know where you stand as a result. I assume this was officer determined and not committee.

You can appeal and probably successfully if there is precedent in your street already with the same plan.

It really is a case of one Planning officer deciding to grant and another deciding to refuse, its the luck of the draw. Some are very pedantic.

You mention more than half the houses on the street have this type of extension; do any houses of your type and your plot size have this large an extension? The larger extension you say was previously allowed, how does the house and plot size compare to yours and how far away from your house is it situated? Reading your neighbour's objection, could anything they said then be applied to the second application?

Also look at timing of the other houses extending. I know on our road (of 40 houses) many of them are extended to the boundary but they were passed through planning 8+ years ago. For the last 5 years or so, no-one has been allowed to extend up to the boundary.

Could it be that- that there been a change in the councils approach since other houses were allowed such big extensions.

For what it's worth, we had a double storey extension 2 years ago, smaller than yours, and got an extra bedroom. If you do have to change your plans surely you can change the internal configuration to get the bedroom you need?

I'm not familiar with RoL?

BubblesBuddy, Going into the ground seems like it may work, but there may be too many stairs all over the place to get from different levels? Our architect has mentioned the rules have tightened since 2016, so that might have something to do with it. You're right about the case officer interpreting the policy, the decision didn't go to committee and the appeal will be based on whether the officer interpreted that policy rightly, which, I am afraid they might agree, since it is a loose phrase.

TantricTwist Really is the luck of the draw.

LadyLapsang Our houses are 1930 built, standard semi detached with garages. If anything, there are houses along our street with bigger extensions than our proposed one. Our neighbour really objected to everything, loss of daylight, sunlight, the building being big, overlooking into their garden, unpleasant view from their rooms etc. That's why we amended the plans and downsized as reasonably possible. We proved that there was no loss of daylight, shadowing, no overlooking more than there is now and that they won't have an unpleasant view either. So the only thing is the actual size. However, these new plans were sent to them again, and they were given formal notice to object again if they wished to do so, but they didn't as we addressed all their concerns and even changed the plans. So I would have imagined that those complaints don't hold much merit for the new set of plans?

namechangedtoday15 We used examples from the most recent accepted applications, the oldest being 4 years. It is possible to make it smaller, but that would mean higher cost for us, as to have a bedroom it would mean removing external walls and putting in steel work, more labour. We've tried to keep as much of the external walls as possible to decrease costs.