Retrospective Planning Advice Please

[BoyMeetsWorld]

Hi advice welcome please as find this whole topic quite daunting.

I've asked previously for advice around our loft situation. In a nutshell, we bought our house as a 3 bed with bonus loft room but it's an unofficial conversion done circa 15 years ago. Various builders and surveyors have looked and said it's in pretty good shape except the stairs are custom built narrower alternating tread rather than 'proper' staircase to meet regs and it may need more insulation. The staircase is the biggie really.

We now need that room - definitely as a study/guest room but ideally as a bigger bedroom for my youngest and we'd then use his smaller room as the study/guest room.

Before we jump straight in to tendering to get the work done for it to be converted properly which will be around 40k in our area, my DH is quite keen for us to put in a Retrospective Planning Application.

His logic is that a)by some miracle they may pass it anyway and save us the money - one of the builders did suggest this could be a possibility b)if they don't pass it they'll at least provide a list of things we need to do to bring it up to regs and it may turn out we don't need to start from scratch, again saving money.

I get this but I have concerns that a)they could tell us we have to strip out all the lights/radiators/staircase etc that was there when we bought it and turn it back to a normal loft b)having alerted the council, don't we remove the possibility of just using the room as it is, as a study and guestroom only (but obviously not putting one of our kids up there!) which was a possibility if it turns out we can't afford the full conversion c)if we apply for this then don't follow through isn't that even worse for resale purposes down the line? Not that we plan to move for at least 8 years.

Thanks for bearing with me. All thoughts welcome!

Planning won't look at the stair case, only at the external dimensions and whether it's similar materials. After 15 years they can't take enforcement action anyway so no need.
Building regulations would look at the stairs and everything else, you'd have to open it all up and it probably won't confirm to modern regs so you'd have a long list. If the structural works can't be proved then you may need to start again with those to get approval. But building control can't take enforcement action more than a year after the works were completed, unless the works are dangerous.
To be honest you're not doing it to satisfy the council, you're doing it to satisfy yourself. Decide what you're happy with and do that. It may be helpful to read the documents to get an idea about fire safety, structure, etc so you can ask the right questions and make an informed choice

It is buildings regs rather than planning that is the issue. You can get an inspection done independently to assess it. It may have met the criteria 15 years ago but possibly will not now. When you bought did you get an Indemnity policy against enforcement? You may need pp for any changes to windows or roofline but the loft becoming a habitable room may be covered by permitted development.

Planning and Building Regs are totally different systems.

Planning would only be required for additions to the property such as dormer windows, changes to the roof shape etc. Even then such additions might be allowed as 'permitted development' meaning a full application would not be necessary. If planning permission had been required and not given, enforcement action for building works cannot be taken if the works have been carried out for more than 4 years.

THe stair issue is covered under Building Regs. I believe that if you apply under Building Regs, they will list out everything that hasn't been met, but not sure. Building Regs basically cover the structural side of building and make sure everything is safe.

ok I'm still really confused.

So if the sole reason we would be involving the council is to find out what the list of works that would need to be done is to turn the existing conversion into one they'd sign off retrospectively as a habitable room - who do we contact?

And if that list comes back utterly humongous, are we able to continue using the room should we choose to without any risk of action by the council? Obviouslu we would not be selling the house with that as a habitable room in that instance. But we didn't buy it as such.

Why do you want it signed off specifically? They won't do anything unless it's actually posing a danger. Better to make an informed decision on the risks and decide what to do yourself.

I would ask the council and go for a regularisation certificate. They will tell you what's required to comply. I'm not sure if they ask it to comply with the regs at the time of conversion or the current ones.

You need a builder not the council. The council isn't there to produce To Do lists for you

The council don't care how you use the room. Building regulations are to ensure your safety so, for example, your loft probably wouldn't meet fire safety regulations. it's up to you whether you wish to use it as a bedroom given the lack of compliance with current standards

Chickencellar - thank you!! A Regularisation Cert is exactly what I was thinking of, not Retrospective Planning - totally wrong phrase. I did say I'm completely confused.

Yes...DH wants us to apply for Regularisation Cert as first step before we commission a complete loft conversion project from scratch, to find out if it's actually OK as it is and could get a certificate and, if not, how much work really needs to be done.

That's because we have already had 3 builders and a structural surveyor over and all of them have commented that it seems in such good shape it might almost pass...but none of them want to stick their necks out to say, so DH feels it's overkill to rip the whole thing out and start from scratch unless needed.

We do ideally WANT to be able to use it as a completely habitable room. But it's not that simple - we have a finite amount of money and don't know if we can afford to turn it into that until we know what actually needs doing to it. If we simply can't afford to, we would use it but not as a bedroom just a study.

JohnD the reason it matters is because we don't want to sink a load of money into it and find we still can't sell the house as a 4 bed. If we can't officially sell as a 4 bed and make our money back, we'd rather spend the bare minimum possible to just decorate and add a bit of insulation and use it as a study not a bedroom.

But if it turns out that it either could already get a Regularisation Cert or wouldn't need more doing than we can afford to get one then we'd go ahead, have a bigger bedroom for DS and make our money back when we sell.

Hope that makes sense.

I still don't fully understand what Regularisation, what it involves or whether buyers would accept it when we sell in the future.

Haint- we do want to comply, that's the whole point. But not spend money we can't afford. Thankfully we have options - if we can comply within our means, we use it as a bedroom. If we can't, we use it as a study which is far less risk. Bedroom would be preferred option hence trying to find out what exactly we'd need to do and how much it would involve so we can then make a fully informed decision on those 2 options.

It's your house - you can use it however you wish. The council can't tell you to take out radiators or the stairs.

But
Is it currently safe to use as a bedroom? I'm assuming there are no fire doors and and no fire escape, so this is a risk.

Look at your house insurance. Are there any exclusions in your policy for loft conversions? Have you stated your house is a 3-bed or a 4-bed? If you decide to use the loft conversion as is, as a bedroom, you may potentially run into trouble if - worst case scenario - you have a fire or even a water leak.

If I were a buyer I would ask if you'd got building regs signed off and an electrical safety certificate for the loft. If you haven't, it's just a loft, not a bedroom or a study.

If the staircase doesn't meet building regs then yes, it's likely you'd have to replace it.

For me it would be a safety issue. Are you happy that the room is safe for your DS to use?

Your first call should be building regs. They will go through with you what they need to see (under plaster etc) and what you'd need to do to confirm with current health and safety/ building regs.

You'll then be armed with the knowledge of what need to be done to get it signed off when you apply for building regs.

Regulations change all the time so it's best to get the person who will be signing it off as safe, to be the one looking at it.

Planning is another department entirely. You may find it falls under permitted development in your area so you might only need a certificate of lawfulness from planning instead of full planning. I might be wrong as it's already in situ. Most planning departments do planning consultations and are most helpful in answering questions.

They all want the work to be legal, safe and signed off. They will work with you.

But your first port of call is Building regs at your local council.

I don't think that council would see the difference between study / bedroom . It's either habitable or not.
I am confused as to why your DH would want to get a RC then commission a new loft project from scratch as you say. Surely you would just do a building regs application from the start. Do you want to add a dorma ?

Thanks purpleorchid, that's helpful.

Chickencellar - sorry, he doesn't want an RC to then start from scratch. IF we can get an RC, we would leave as is. If we can't, we'd start from scratch (or do the various items they'd said we would need to do to bring up to scratch).

It does have fire doors etc by the way although no fire escape as such except down to the next floor which is fully fitted with fire doors.

Apologies for confusion - a lot of people on here seem to be reading it as if I'm asking whether we can use an unapproved room as a bedroom. That's not the question at all. It's about finding out our options with the existing conversion to decide what to do (whether a)it's already fit to be used as a bedroom b)we get it redone so can use as a bedroom if can afford c)if can't afford we leave as is and use as a study).

You can employ private building inspectors rather than council so maybe give one a call? But they will likely need key bits exposing just as a surveyor would. The advantage would be if you did get it to confirm it would add value to your house.

If it’s too costly to do the work, they could possibly advise on the risks (eg fire) and any ways of reducing them.

Would it be possible for you to sleep in the lift space so at least it’s not a child?

Chickencellar you're right the council wouldn't distinguish between a bedroom or study...but we would in terms of risk.

If it turns out there's so much needing to be done to meet regs that we can't afford to do it, we wouldn't be happy to use it in current state as a kids bedroom. But we would as an adults study.

On a financial level we could already use it now for that purpose so it wouldn't be anywhere near the investment. But we'd ideally prefer to be able to use as a bedroom.

In that case I would apply for a RC certificate from your council. They will come out and then you can price up the works required. I wouldn't bother with a private building control , they can't do RC and I imagine wouldn't add much to the surveyor and builders you have already had to look at it.