Would you fly the union jack?

[cloudtree]

So after almost a decade of living in our house and wondering what on earth the large concrete post with two manacle type things hanging from it is for, we've realised it's not to hold down a dragon but to hold a flag pole.

DH is now toying with the idea of putting up a union jack. He is really keen and says it makes him think of village greens, the military, sporting events and sunshine. The problem is that I'm worried that the union jack has been appropriated by the far right. Perhaps not to the same extent as the George's cross, but I am worried it now has negative connotations (unless its a Royal wedding week).

House is not in a normal location in that we're rural and the house and a flag would not be able to be seen from the roadside, but neighbours and visitors to the house would see it. The house is big with large grounds. For context, there are a couple of big houses in the nearest village that frequently have the union jack flying.

Would you assume someone was probably racist (or a UKIP supporter - or both!) if they had a union jack flying? I'm concerned, DH says that if the union jack has been appropriated by the far right then its about time we re-appropriated it!

As an American I find this entire conversation really fascinating/enlightening!

No, objectively. It’s a rectangle of material with an abstract pattern on that’s generally understood to be a symbol of the U.K.

Any other association is a connotation. Associating it with the Queen, Brexit, UKIP, patriotism, national mourning etc are all derived from personal connections to the flag.

No one is questioning the 'theoretical' meaning of the flag etc

The flag has clearly been appropriated by the far right, and those types.

So, you can conclude that those who do fly one are most likely going to be those types.

If you can't see this, you have issues. Are you one of those types, Claudia?

@ClaudiaWankleman well thanks for that patronising explanation. You don’t have the right to tell anyone what something means to them. You are adamant you do not unlike the kind of people discussed on this thread but like most things, it doesn’t matter how loudly you shout it. It doesn’t mean you’re right.

Theres loads of ways of being patriotic.

Drink tea (from China).

Eat curry (from South Asia) or Chinese (from China)

Sing the national anthem (who even knows the words?)

:)

Failing that, complain about the weather.

If I’ve been patronising then so have you...

I’ve posted before about my support to remain. I just really reject the pearl clutching sobs that the sight of the Union Jack is offensive. I’m sure you all scream at the flag raising during the olympics and avoid all Jack Wills promo material too.

@ClaudiaWankleman grow up catholic in the west of Scotland and then tell me what I am and aren’t allowed to feel. Being targeted by grown ass men because I’m not like them, being spat at, having funerals disrupted deliberately (more than once), living with the union flag being used to intimidate, discriminate and belittle people.

You haven’t a clue.

And yes, I do avoid anything that has the union flag on it. And I don’t cheer at the olympics for it either. Why would I?

Well I grew up there and the rare orange lodge marches were the cause of much cat calling and piss taking (by the locals). Rarely saw a union flag otherwise.

No, objectively. It’s a rectangle of material with an abstract pattern on that’s generally understood to be a symbol of the U.K.

So why fly it? Because you feel it symbolises the uk, right. And what is it about the UK , specifically, you want to advertise your allegiance to?

American fly theirs everywhere, fly it with pride

Yeah, and then they vote for Trump...

I don’t fly one. I can imagine people flying it for patriotic reasons, or to support a sports team, or because they like the design aesthetic (Tom Daley’s interior design).

The point is that when you see someone flying a flag, you don’t know their motivation. To feel offended at the sight of it is ridiculous for that reason.

Well yes KT63, what you’re really upset about (and completely justifiably) there is disgusting behaviour. Not the sight of a flag flying somewhere in suburbia.

@AsAProfessionalFekko lucky you. That’s not the case in my town. Especially when bands from other areas come over. It’s carnage.

I think it's really sad to assume racists live in a house where they are flying the Union flag. Really sad. We should appropriate it as a symbol of togetherness instead.
This ^
Also the Union Flag as an abstract pattern is an attractive thing.

My in laws fly a Union Jack. They are really quite hideous and chavvy. Don't do it.

The Union Jack has been our flag since the early 17th century. Its history is way longer than that of UKIP and the EU. Brexit makes no difference to that either way. 🇬🇧

Curiously I’ve always wondered how Welsh people feel about it? Because Wales isn’t represented on it which feels pretty unfair if it’s to represent the UK.

They have a cool dragon though.

They do! I love the Welsh flag 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

If I had a flagpole the dds and I would make flags to fly on it.

Flags for:
Birthdays
Halloween
Christmas
New Years
Whatever we fancied.

And a big fuck of purple/white/green feminist flag.

It would be great fun.

For those who envy the Scots being able to fly the Saltire- not any more unless you’re pro independence. The snp have completely taken ownership.

To be fair I’m pro SNP and I wouldn’t fly the saltire either.

I prefer the tatty, angry looking lion spitting fire/poking his tongue out.

If probably hoist a large pair of Queen Victoria-esque bloomers.

@Claudia

*I don’t fly one. I can imagine people flying it for patriotic reasons, or to support a sports team, or because they like the design aesthetic (Tom Daley’s interior design).

The point is that when you see someone flying a flag, you don’t know their motivation. To feel offended at the sight of it is ridiculous for that reason*

What 'patriotic reasons' though? You can't just say that as if it's automatically not offensive because it's 'patriotic'

ANyway, I don't feel 'offended' because it's not potentially saying 'fuck off home' to me, being white and British. I just think the people are wankers.

Either you espouse racist ideology, or you don't care that many people will think you do, and many will see it as a big two fingers saying 'this is our country and you're not welcome here' when you fly that flag outside your house. Neither is an especially good look.