RCB / fuse box - desperarately seeking advice

[MANT]

Since last year our RCB / fuse box has been tripping. Despite numerous visits from British GAS, Local Heroes, qualified electricians who have all said that out appliances and sockets are fine the RCB continues to trip on a daily basis sometimes 3 times in 24 hours. We are at our wits end. We even noticed that our mains water pipe has a lot of condensation which leaks drops of water into the floor right where mains wires are so we called DYNO who refused to accept that this causes the RCB to trip and said nothing could be done. Our insurers don't want to know either and referred us to our utility suppliers which we have already investigated.
Short of seeking legal advice we do not know what to do as something as simple as this is affecting our lives . Surely there is a solution !
Any advice will be very welcomed.

Although inconvenient you could turn off all breakers EXCEPT the one for the downstairs sockets. If as you say it trips up to 3 times in 24 hours then it ought to trip within a day IF it is the downstairs socket wiring that has a problem.
You say the drip goes onto some wires. Are these wires part of the downstairs 'ring' or something else?

Hi

The curved white pipe is a gas pipe. We do not have a water installed in our home. I believe Thames water have installed these just on the external boundary line in our front garden . We cannot see any meter there but know our water is being metered. Houses in our area are undergoing what I suppose is a transition phase and Thames water has already indicated that we are high users we will be charged for water use i circa 18 months

meter

and photo of your consumer unit please.

There's a leak.

wire-brush the pipe, joint and stopcock clean and bright, wipe it, and blow talcum powder onto it. The dripping water will leave a track showing where it comes from.

Meanwhile ask around for a recommended local plumber.

It will be interesting to take up that part of the floor and see what's beneath it. There may be wiring and there might be a hidden joint or junction box.

a water meter under the pavement is ideal. Look for a cover, about six inches square, probably black plastic, that you can lever up with the back of a teaspoon. You will need a torch, a rag to clean the top of the meter, and possibly a ladle or cup if the pit is full of rainwater. Look for a glass window in the top, with a bubble of air in it. The bubble turns all the time water is flowing. It is much more sensitive than the numbers. Observe if it turns. Turn off the internal stopcock. Observe if it stops.

Consumer unit attached . Will check water meter now

Unable to lift up the lid which is located on the public pathway . Impossible to lift unless I use a spade and i don't want to damage it.

what size is it? show us a pic.

There are two thick plastic cables that run from the consumer unit into the ground. These are relatively new ie when we changed our consumer unit 10 years ago when we had the loft built. There is another collection of cables than run from the ground and right into the first floor ..I assume these are the electricity cables that provided electricity into the loft extension as they are again installed when we had the loft extension..again they are exposed and one electrician commented that they were poorly installed.

pic of water meter ...hidden in the ground.

Not big about 20x20cm just extremely stiff to lift.

Looking at your CU, I can't make out the brand.

It looks like you have four circuits which are RCD protected; the Loft, (illegible); kitchen, and ground floor. It looks like all your other circuits, such as the lights, are not RCD protected.

BTW the loft circuit appears to be 40Amp which is irregular for a socket circuit. I suspect it feeds an electric shower.

What I suggest you do is get a qualified electrician to change the breakers for those four circuits to RCBOs and remove the RCD (replace it with a DP switch, which is the same size). An RCBO is a single-size device which includes both an MCB and an RCD for a single circuit.

This will do two things:

It will trip only on the circuit that has the fault, so
1 - it will not disrupt your household so much
2 - it will enable you to identify and isolate the circuit where the fault exists.

RCBOs typically cost the trade about £30 each, I don't know what the fitted cost will be. The installing electrician should provide you with an installation certificate showing what he has done and the test results.

To ensure you have a suitably qualified electrician, he must be a member of one of the Competent Person Schemes, such as
www.niceic.com/find-a-contractor/find-contractors
Look for one that is local to you; and has been in business foe several years; and is not just a "Domestic Installer" (that is the lowest grade. If you find an electrician by personal recommendation, ask which scheme he is a member of, and check it yourself on their website, before you make an appointment. No qualified electrician will be reluctant or hesitant, he will be proud of his qualification. No proof = don't use him (or her). It is personal, don't accept an unqualified assistant.

Advertising Websites where traders pay to be listed, and can screen out unfavourable reviews, are the worst places to look.

An experienced electrician will immediately understand the reasons and benefits of the change I suggest. Say that in a week or two, when you can identify which circuit has the fault, you will want him to come back and fault find (he might be able to start the same day, but I'd wait until you are sure you know the pattern).

Earth leakage faults are almost always to do with water, usually a boiler, immersion heater, electric shower, kettle, outdoor lamp, fountain, etc.

yes, that's the water meter. Probably black plastic. You can see the hinge at the top of the photo. At the bottom of the photo, opposite the hinge, should be a small notch where you can insert a large flat screwdriver, or a teaspoon handle, to lever it open, like the lid of a paint tin. You might want to scrape the mud out first. The lid is the round part, not the whole square. If difficult you can ring the water co for advice.

PigletJohn,

I don't know what say apart from I am so grateful for your detailed diagnosis. So you would say the tripping RCD is due to the wet pipes ?
I get that i should call an electrician but what about a plumber too ? With whom should I start because none of the others bar DNO looked at this before ? DNO refuses to help. I have contacted Staunch and flow plumbers ..have you heard of them ? I will look at the list of recommended electricians too.
Obviously I would be grateful if you could directly recommend an electrician with similar credentials to yourself.
Please let me know if this is possible.

Hi ,

Found quite a few that are listed by niceie and listed as ( not just domestic. They seem to live give their private addresses as work establishments I suppose that's normal for independent electricans ?

Approved Contractor
Domestic Installer
PAT

Approved contractor is what you want.

Domestic Installer is a lower level

PAT is just a semi-skilled tedious job offered as businesses need it.

The wet pipe might not end up being the true cause, though it might be, but get a plumber in first to fix it. If he needs to take the floor up to see what's going on, ask him to put it back with screws so the electrician can take a look later. Electrical cables are waterproof but perhaps they have been gnawed. Rats need constantly available water. There is a stopcock attached to your meter in the pavement, there should be a blue plastic handle on it. If not, buy a spare handle from the water co (or two).

The fault is inside your house so not the DNO's problem.

It's quite normal for self-employed electricians to have an office at home. You don't want one that spends his days on multi-million industrial plant.

For plumbers, personal recommendation is useful. Mending a leaking pipe needs skill, not qualifications. Quite often older people do small jobs in semi-retirement. Not a DIYer or handyman.

Huge thanks for your impressive advice. I have found a local electrician designated as 'an approve contractor ' by Niceie and actually know a semi retired plumber who might be of help.

Unfortunately the floor is concrete underneath the stairs and the adjacent kitchen but will enquire with plumber about access.

Many thanks for your amazing help and for guiding me . Hopefully i will soon get back with good news.

Just the latest DNO called in again and finally admitted it's a leak . They have quoted over £700 plus for discovering and repairing the leak and stated that even if its resolved in 10 mins we would have to pay for 5 hours ..I find this totally unacceptable and will be seeking a local plumber instead. It sounds like they simply don't want this job.

I will feed back and follow Pigletjohns advice
Huge thanks to all of you .

You don't need the DNO to 'discover' the leak, you already know about it!
A local plumber should be fine and hopefully not £700!

I have twigged that "DNO" is being used here to mean Dynorod (home repairs) rather than "Distribution Network Operator" which is the company that owns and manages the local electricity cables and substations that deliver electricity to homes and businesses.

Yes apologies I thought they were the same organisation with differing abbreviations but clearly not. They were recommended bv British Gas. I hope their quote is not reflective of what is to come. Will arrange my local plumber who has in the past been great. Dynorod claim to be fair and clear with their pricing but his seems extortionate pricing.

So what happened in the end, MANT? Did you get it sorted?

I always love to hear the end of a story!

Yes I’d love to know too!

wake up, @MANT !!

Hi everyone

After almost a year of our trip switch tripping everyday... calling British gas, Local Heroes, insurance companies and various other professionals no one could fix it. Then my wife mentioned it to the about to retire caretaker at her work place "I'll just change the fuse" (£30 did it in10 mins). Its been perfect since. So the motto here is the little guys are often the best. He actually changed our lives. Many thanks to you all esp piglet John who also mention a change in fuse arrangement