Barn conversion, help needed

[Prestonsflowers]

Hello
We’re in the process of converting a Barn to residential accommodation and I need some help with heating and hot water supply.
It will have an open plan kitchen/dining/living area with a wood burner. 2 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms.
There is no mains gas in the Barn and it will cost £££s to get gas there.
The choices we have been offered is either an electric boiler or an oil boiler.
Can anyone give pros and cons for both.
Thanks

Don’t know, but are you putting in wet underfloor heating?

I’m not sure. If we have the electric boiler probably not but yes if we go for an oil boiler.

boilerhut.co.uk/electric-boiler-vs-oil-boiler/

Any help?

knittedfairies
Thank you, that’s an excellent link, decision made!

Have you looked at the RHI, renewal heat incentive and installing a wood pellet fired boiler?

Wood pellets are a greenwash disaster, oil is more eco friendly. Have a hot water tank which is some proof against power cuts.

Don't make it open plan, walls and doors keep heat in. And no silly huge windows, normal ones with thick curtains.

Xx had a similar dilemma a few years ago. Old oil boiler was agricultural and ancient. Extremely inefficient also.
We looked into all the wood pellet boilers and green deal types but went with oil again in the end and love it. Much cheaper to than the old one.
We have underfloor heating linked to it ( wet system) and I'd say in a barn, if ceilings are high, you'll regret not getting it. Our ceilings are high and in the new extension, double height so over twenty feet and it never feels cold. In the rooms with rads it does feel cool in the morning etc.

A different idea - I had electric Dimplex radiators in a flat and they were great. Each had its own timer and temperature/power setting so rooms were only heated when needed. They were surprisingly cheap to run even though I'm the type who likes wearing T-shirts indoors in winter.

All electric heating costs the same to run, a kilowatt is a kilowatt. A flat will be a lot cheaper to heat than a barn.

My sister has an old stable conversion (she didn’t convert it). They have a polished concrete floor and underfloor heating - it’s wonderful and always a constant temperature. They do use calor gas though. It’s a pain in the winter but barely requires changing outside of that.

They are going to get gas installed though even though it will be costly.

Have you thought about a ground source heat pump or air source heat pump? I dont know how the costs would compare (suspect expensive to install but not sure about long term running costs). I will be facing this dilemma when it comes to replacing the oil fired boilers (we have 2) in our barn conversion and will be doing some in depth research.

If not too expensive I definitely want to replace our radiators on the ground floor with underfloor heating,as suggested by pp, because the main open plan part of our barn is double height, all the heat rises so when we go upstairs on the landing it is warm, whereas downstairs is slightly cooler than I would like.

That link refers to oil prices consistently decreasing - I would not necessarily say that is the case, they are considerably higher now than they were a year ago, and fluctuate seasonally as well.

A friend of ours with a barn conversion recently had a devastating fire, caused by the wood pellet boiler catching fire.

It is not a simple decision...

Thanks for all the replies. Some good ideas here.
Wood pellets are not an option here, because I don’t have the storage.
We’ve decided to go for oil and will have wet underfloor heating, that is an absolute must. We’ve just had UFH in our new kitchen extension and it’s fabulous.
The barn will be open plan, when all the internal walls and floors were taken away then the space was amazing, I’m definitely not going to close it off.
The only windows are arrow slits so no need for curtains! There will be floor to roof height glazed panels in the central atrium

If you have the land area outside to install the underground 'heat collecting' pipe, the ground source heat pumps heating underfloor could be a good option. Use electric water heaters perhaps to give you hot water. Oil prices fluctuate over the year so having a large tank (or two) so you can buy at the 'best' time helps minimise the cost. A GSHP unit is expensive, I was looking for suppliers recently but failed to find any but a few years back they were around £7,000 but SHOULD last a long time as they are relatively simple units, a motor and pump essentially.
As Specialsubject said, think about how to keep heat in, no big windows, section off areas and insulate as much as you possibly can.

I’d also look at a ground source heat pump if you have some land too. We have one and it’s been brilliant. The RHI will more than cover the cost of installation (paid back over 7 years). Going forwards we never have to worry about running out of fuel and it’s one of the most cost effective methods of hearing your house (roughly 1/4 of the price of an electric boiler).

Although we have barns we live in a town, so we don’t have a large amount of land. Our house and barns are also listed and in a National Park, so to install anything out of the ordinary i.e. GSHP I would need to apply for planning permission.
It took me 11 months to get permission to replace the roof on the house, part of the ceiling had come down and the water was running down the walls. It also took 3 years to get permission for an extension.
So I’m not re-applying to change anything on the existing permission for the barns.
Having two tanks for the oil is an excellent idea and we’ll be using a massive amount of insulation.
I’m still keeping it open plan though 😊

Ground source heat pump installation makes a total mess of the garden but if you don’t have a garden that’s great, it is worth doing.

I agree with the open space. Most barns were not built with rooms!

Granted the digging for GSHP pipework is messy but only done once and when the soil is back down there is nothing to see. The land can be used for anything as the pipes are buried 2 metres or more underground (the deeper the better). The heat pump 'compressor' is about the size of a small boiler. Heating the water to 40 degrees (or whichever it is for underfloor use) is more efficient than trying to raise the temperature to 55-60 degrees used for hot water or more for conventional radiators.
On the basis there is nothing to see after installation it might be possible in a national park.

V happy with our oil boiler

outabout
I totally understand your point and it may well be possible here, but we have too many nosy neighbours to do it without permission, and I really don’t want to have to wait for, possibly a very long time to finish the conversion.
The officers of the National Park here are notorious for being as obstructive as possible!

You can of course bore straight down which requires practically no space at all. You could possibly even do that inside your barn (assuming the floor isn't all laid yet) so neighbours wouldn't necessarily know.

Stuff the neighbours! Not sure if ground source heat needs pp or not but our air source heat system didn’t. It’s not something that is unsightly when completed. I assume anyone can dig up their land if they want to?

I mentioned about the garden because some people might have a house with an outstanding garden and wouldn’t want it dug up in any way!

The hole for the heat collectors needn't be huge as there are many possibilities. The 400 metres of plastic pipe laid out takes a lot of digging but can be quite cheap. Vertical drilling is expensive but virtually no area taken to do it. Other forms of collector, a bit like burying a couple of large radiators could be part way between in terms of cost and not necessarily much disturbance while doing it. Certainly worth talking to a GOOD installation company.

My parents have a large barn they converted in the 90s they have electric storage heaters and a wood burning stove in the largest part of the barn. They have a tariff on electricity so it's cheaper to run at night so storage heaters are set for that. Keeps house warm. and manageable

If you've not got the space for ground source heat pump, go for an Air-Source Heat Pump!

• They're absolutely brilliant!
• My parents have got one on their barn conversion - they're cheap to run, easy to install, and eco-friendly!

(When they were first invented in the early '00s, they were quite noisy - the modern day ones are now totally silent) ...Also- have you considered PVC pannels?

Thanks for the suggestions myfamilyandotheranimals
The barn is listed and I would not get permission for an air source heat pump