Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Property/DIY

Join our Property forum for renovation, DIY, and house selling advice.

What should I do about my solicitor?

19 replies

hetara · 16/03/2018 01:16

Hey all :(

So I have a general headache about this conveyancing solicitor, and I am not sure what I should do to address the issues I have with him. I'm a first time buyer, and I've found a house that is miraculously in the area I want to live in and at a price I can afford. I got this solicitor who was recommended to me by someone who had used him for an inheritance matter. I was told he was able to sort out several problems with the estate with very little fuss or hoo-ha.

Boy, that has not been my experience! There have been several little moments that have bothered me, and then there is the big, pressing problem I'm actually really worried about. First, with the little niggly "bad deskside manner" things. I asked him fairly early on if he could give me an estimated date of completion, just a rough idea of when I could expect the sale to be wrapped up. He laughed and laughed as though it was the most ridiculous thing he had ever heard, and completely failed to tell me any rough date. He also didn't tell me what I could do to help things move on a bit more. I managed to speak to his secretary a bit later on that day, who was far more helpful, and told me that they were waiting on some documents from the other side, so I was then able to contact the estate agent to let them know the situation.

Another :( moment: he wasn't able to tell me what a peppercorn rent was. When I was told the house's ground rent was a peppercorn rent, I didn't know what it was (not being a conveyancer like him.) I asked him. He talked on and on about literal peppercorns in a grinder. I eventually lied and said I understood to stop him talking. A quick google told me what it was, which was a very simple definition that has nothing to do with peppercorns in a grinder.

He keeps complaining about the vendor's solicitors not being good, which is fair enough (they haven't been that great tbh). However, I find it quite petty and hypocritical - one week, he kept complaining about how late they were with returning their documents to him. A day later, I called the estate agent to hurry it along a bit. The estate agent tells me that they sent it that morning. "Great," think I. A few days go by, and I hear nothing, so I call my solicitor's office. They haven't heard anything. I call the estate agent again. They definitely e-mailed the docs through. I called my solicitor again - it turns out he's gone on holiday, not told me, and the other side's documentation is in his inbox, going unchecked. Eventually, the correct docs reach a person who can act on them.

That's the petty, basic incompetence stuff. It sucks, but I could live with it. But now, this guy is making noises that is making me extremely anxious that I might lose the sale.

So the house I am buying was marketed as a 3 bedroom - 2 normal bedrooms, and a loft conversion that has been comfortably in use for the last 12 years. On the survey, it was revealed that the loft conversion did not have planning permission, nor building approval. When pushed on this, the seller sent a message to my solicitor saying that the loft is not a bedroom, but used entirely for storage space. Which is obviously not the case.

Now call me hopelessly naive, but this does not turn me off the sale. As stated, the conversion has been in use for a long time, by tenants who did not report anything dodgy (and I'd expect them to be honest.) It's pretty nicely done, and while I do want to get a surveyor in to properly inspect it before committing to buy, I see it more as a reason to renegotiate the price, with a view to freeing up money to bring it up to standard. I've spoken to a friend's husband, who works on loft conversions, and apparently converting a loft but marketing it as storage space upon sale is quite common, and my mortgage broker has also told me his parents recently saw a similar arrangement in their house search - the problem here is that the house was marketed and described as 3 bedroom.

My solicitor's reaction upon learning about the loft, however, was immediate and utter pessimism. He immediately started to describe it as a possible non-starter, and that unless the seller was able to obtain retrospective planning permission, that I should not proceed. After the initial shock of this news, I did my own research into the matter, found out that not all loft conversions need planning permission, that this arrangement (with the conversion described as storage space) was not rare at all, and explained my desire to renegotiate the price, following a survey on the loft to make sure it was safe. In response, he sent me a brusque e-mail where he "needed to remind [me] that I act for your lender and not just for you" (I am taking out a 50% mortgage on the property.) He told me that if retrospective planning permission is not obtained, then he will tell the lender that he takes the view on the property as a 3 bedroom house with no planning permission for the loft area, and that insurance is not an option. Very concerned, I contacted my broker (who has been an absolute superstar, far more helpful and communicative than the solicitor), who told me that my lender is generally flexible with building criteria, and doesn't see why it can't be reassessed as a 2 bedroom. He let the lender know the situation, and told me that it is up to the solicitor to outline the situation so they can decide the next course of action. It may be that they reassess the property, it may be that they cancel the mortgage outright.

So my problem is this: do I get my solicitor to contact the lender? It will help things move along, but given his super grim view on the matter, I'm frightened he may convince them to cancel the mortgage. And how do I address my complete lack of confidence in this man? I don't think I have enough to make a formal complaint - I find his emails very brusque, minimal on the detail and dogmatic, and he has failed to act appropriately at several points, but nothing major. I have considered sending him an e-mail directly addressing his rudeness, minimal communication, and that I think he is unnecessarily jeopardising the sale when I think it still needs to be investigated. However, I'm not sure what good that will do me. Can I request a simple change in solicitor?

Thank you for any help/advice you may be able to offer!

OP posts:
hetara · 16/03/2018 01:22

Oops, that should have been a :) at the start!

OP posts:
NorthBouy · 16/03/2018 01:58

I recently purchased a house and the experience was everything yours is not. Apart from minor delays with lenders survey but that was over Christmas/New Year, so forgivable.

I would change firm if possible. Obviously depends on your financial situation, can you afford the billable hours for 'work' done and the new solicitors fees.

Belleende · 16/03/2018 04:54

I don't think you are on very firm ground here. The only substantive issue here is the loft conversion, and he is absolutely right. I would be waaaay more pissed at the vendors and EA for letting you get to this stage without them stating this. They falsely marketed the property.

He may also be right with his pessimism. Do you know the difference in value between a 2 bed and a 3 bed in your area? In my area it would be approaching 100k. If you try and negotiate to that extent, it is likely the new price will not allow the vendors to buy the property they want. If you take much less then you are buying an overvalued house.

You have three choices. 1) Get the vendors to do the work to regularise the loft
2) negotiate a pretty hefty reduction
3) Walk away

bastardkitty · 16/03/2018 05:00

He sounds like an absolute dick though. Can you find out if there is a different conveyancer at the same firm who can take over rather than incur the cost and delay of changing?

Angryosaurus · 16/03/2018 05:30

He is acting for the mortgage company as well though. I think most conveyancers would say the same about a loft conversion with no building regs marketed as a bedroom.

Catstar123 · 16/03/2018 05:40

He’s right on the bedroom thing though and that he acts for your lender. Your valuation is based on it being a 3 bed house as marketed, if the loft bedroom does not have planning permission/Council sign off then it could massively decrease value. Your solicitor could face a massive negligence action if he doesn’t advise you and lender if this.

Your sellers sound very dodgy on this issue (marketing as 3 bed, then saying storage space) Id be worried what else they were covering up! Especially as you say it’s “miraculously” in your price range. Sounds to me like they knew there were problems.

user1487194234 · 16/03/2018 06:46

He is acting for your Lender and has no option but to report it to them
If they are prepared to lend in the circumstances THEN it's your decision as to whether you go ahead
I wouldn't because of the risk in resale
The estate agent is acting for the seller and only cares that the sale goes through and they get paid
They are not your friend in this situation
Any solicitor would take the same approach to that issue

user1487194234 · 16/03/2018 06:49

And it is not planning permission which is not needed for most loft conversions but building control consent that is the issue

KittiKat · 16/03/2018 06:59

Your solicitor is right, there is no way he can proceed as it is because he DOES have to be accountable to your mortgage lenders. I had this. The house I bought had lots of extensions, they did not have a completion statement on it. The vendors had to apply to the Council for this statement before we could exchange contracts. All this did was hold up the sale for 3 weeks whilst the statement was obtained.

Buying a house is a very stressful thing but I am sorry to say, he is doing his job.

I do not see why your sellers cannot now obtain retrospective planning permission especially after 12 years.

MultiGrey · 16/03/2018 07:06

Your solicitor is right. You may not like his manner but he has to do his due diligence.

MultiGrey · 16/03/2018 07:08

Also the recommendation was from someone that used him for inheritance rather than Conveyancing. It may not be his area Ion specialism. If you don’t have a good relationship it may be worth going elsewhere.

Pradaqueen · 16/03/2018 07:26

Op you have some great advice here. Your Solicitor as everyone has pointed out, is under an obligation to act for the Lender and you. However, I do understand the concern using a solicitor who does sound like hard work. You really need a solicitor experienced in conveyancing and it might be that he feels he is out if his depth thus is projecting onto you. Changing solicitor will cost money but you will be less wound up at a stressful time so think of it as sanity money.

In the first instance, you need to understand the valuation issues which may arise out of the 'is it two or three bedrooms' issue assuming the Vendors are not willing to regularise their side of things. The EA will know you are a great buyer and therefore any other potentially buyers may have chains and also the same issue you face.Has the lender instructed a surveyor yet? Have you tried Zoopla to establish the difference? If the valuation supports the sale price as a two bedder and the vendor will agree to pay for an indemnity policy to protect you against the building regs/planning permission issue then you have the opportunity to add value by applying retrospectively and bringing the work up to standard. Ask a local builder to visit with you to establish the likely cost. But you need to be aware that instructing surveyors is potentially lost money. So in this order I would: 1. Establish likely value in the worst-case scenario as a two bedder via Zoopla/EA 2. Assuming from 1 it is a go-EE Get the valuation done so you know where the lender stands. 3. Ask for recommendations for an experienced conveyancing solicitor. Do not skimp on the cost of this as their advice will be invaluable. 4. Get the vendor to organise an indemnity and renegotiate the price to reflect the result of 1 &2.

Hope that helps. Best of luck to you,

Angryosaurus · 16/03/2018 09:22

I would really think hard how much the little things that are irritating you really matter, as switching conveyancer s will mean wasting money and time. Ime they are all equally annoying but in different ways!

hetara · 16/03/2018 10:34

Thanks everyone for your advice :)

The house is a good price, but not outside of the standard house price bracket for the area (between 90 and 120k, going off of recent sales on the same street.) It's one of those up-and-coming areas, so every house has either a new conservatory, loft conversion, solar panels etc. I originally massively low-balled my offer, and after a bit of back and forth, we came to something in between what we were both asking. So while it is a good price, it's not absurdly out of the ballpark for the type of house in that area. If I get the opportunity to renegotiate the price, I want to go back to something in the region of my initial offer, which is 10k less than the current one (which, from some investigating, may be what it takes to upgrade the loft.)

I've decided to face the music and ask my solicitor to contact the lenders so they can decide what to do - they knew the situation already because my broker and I kept them informed, but of course they need official notification from him. It may be that the loft is entirely unviable, with poor insulation or floor supports etc, but I would like to know with a bit more certainty. I've also asked the estate agent if I can bring a structural engineer round to the property to give it a preliminary inspection (I actually suspect it hasn't gone in for building control approval because there is no door to it, which is obviously against fire regulations.)

I just wish I had more confidence in the solicitor. It's not just that he is rude and inappropriate, but he is just so minimal in his communications. I get the impression he only ever does any work on my case when I ring him to ask, and his e-mails are all short, very impatient and sketchy on explanation. I'm constantly in the dark and it's been proven more than once that he is not someone I can rely on for information or clarity - once I asked him what the next step was, and again, I got a rambling non-answer that did nothing for my understanding of the situation. I usually try to get his secretary on the phone, who is great at explaining things, or I go to my broker for all my information, because he actually takes the time to compose e-mails that let me know what is coming, what all the possible outcomes are etc. The solicitor also keeps getting planning permission and building control approval confused, and was once grumpy with me because I referred to the searches as enquiries. I don't know why.

Thanks again, and fingers crossed!

OP posts:
SecondaryConfusion · 16/03/2018 12:29

Is he a conveyencing specialist? I think you’ve relied on the fact he did a good job for your friend on an entirely different area of law too much as a recommendation.

Can hubafgord to switch to another solicitor?

SecondaryConfusion · 16/03/2018 12:29

Can you afford, no idea how spelling corrected to that above!

hetara · 17/03/2018 18:26

He is listed as doing conveyancing on his staff profile on his firm's website, but it's literally the last thing he has listed, behind a slew of inheritance related law terms. I wouldn't mind getting another conveyancing solicitor at the same firm to cast an eye on it, though again, I'm not sure what that would achieve.

He responded to my message about contacting the lender - he thinks that it is a bit premature, as he is waiting on the seller to respond to his last request for retrospective building approval (he still refers to it as planning permission.) However, I'm getting a little frustrated with how slow everything is going, and they've had a week and a half to respond, so I've decided to force the issue . Worst case scenario, I've found another house that works nicely as a plan b. I still hope this sale goes through, as it really is a nice house, but if it proves to be unviable/unmortgagable, I'll rest easy knowing I did my best.

OP posts:
Alpestris · 17/03/2018 23:56

Don't proceed without either reducing your offer substantially to reflect that it is actually a 2 bed , or getting every certificate necessary for the conversion. Otherwise you may struggle to sell it on later.

PettsWoodParadise · 18/03/2018 08:24

As you’ve discovered expecting a timeline for completion is unreasonable. Every purchase is fraught with unique issues.

I think if I had a client who did an internet search for every detail and didn’t trust me I probably wouldn’t have the best manner with them as they hadn’t had the best manner with me (sorry - that is how it reads to me). We’ve bought and sold a lot in the past and have had to walk away from some properties where there have been issues like defective leases or planning infringements that at worst case scenario meant we’d have to reinstate it to the way it was before the conversion so devaluing and costing money and stress. So the solicitor is duty bound to let you know of these risks.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread