Builder & Surveyor..... Are they pulling my leg? Calling Mumsnet Jury

[GraveorExtension]

We are having a rear single storey extension, on an estate where all the houses are identical. Planning portal shows various local extensions -all in permitted development- and we've had 4 builders in to quote. No problem. (Apart from the one who put the fear of god in us about the current ceiling about to fall in......but luckily he could pop in in a few days to shore it up for £400 )

Now, the plans. We're on a tight budget and seeking cost cutting along the way. We have builder-help for the second fit etc. I've researched PP with the local authority and because we're sticking within permitted development, it's all straightforward to apply.

"......Complete prior notification to notify a local planning authority of the intention to use the permitted development rights....

1. A homeowner wishing to build a larger single-storey rear extension must notify the local planning authority and provide:

a. a written description of the proposal which includes the length that the extension extends beyond the rear wall of the original house, the height at the eaves and the height at the highest point of the extension
b. a plan of the site, showing the proposed development
c. the addresses of any adjoining properties, including at the rear
d. a contact address for the developer (the householder) and an email address if the developer is happy to receive correspondence by email.

A plan drawn to an identified scale will assist the authority in assessing your development proposal. Plans can be bought from one of our accredited suppliers using our Buy-a-plan service (www.planningportal.gov.uk/buyaplan)"

So, I've prepped all this and about to send to council. I asked a recommended, experienced, Chartered Surveyor to draw up building specs (he knows our builder) and he's dismissed my work above. Sort of gave it a wave of his hand and said "Oh I'll do all that, you don't need to do anything at all". Didn't listen when I tried to tell him it was all done. I said that we were in a rush and could the whole process be speeded up somehow. He said No

Only he can't measure up for a few weeks and we need to get going asap otherwise we'll lose our builder slot. Council application won't go in for another full month. Then we have to wait out the Neighbour Notification scheme period. Up to 42 days.

So, our application is sitting there and we're sitting on the fence. DH thinks pay him the £1,800 to sort it ALL and wait for him and I want to send it all off, then employ someone else to do the building specs only. Which was my original request.

Have I missed something obvious, or am I crazy to do this bit myself?

Mumsnet Jury?................ Perhaps I should put this in AIBU?!

So not quite at the digging footings stage which will become either a Grave or Extension Thought this first bit would be simple!

Are you in AONB ?

No Chicken, are you? Nor a SSSI or ENR or anything else that's special. Just a regular run of the mill estate.

Which is why I can't get my head round all this expensive need for 'belt & braces'. Started to think I might be missing something... Hence stopping at MN. I've learned everything I know from MN!

If AONB then it's relevant I agree.

We are building an extension under permitted development rules. Ours is a detached house though, so no Party Wall issues.
Just submit it yourself to Building Control .. you can use the Planning Portal. You don't need the surveyor to do this.

The builder should ( if any good) know what to do re specs. Building control come out and check each stage as you go along, and have a discussion about the next stage. Ours are strict, very approachable, but know their business.

I did the paperwork myself, described the extension ( biggest we could do under PD) , submitted it to the local authority B.C and we so far have done most of the work ourselves. Ready for first fix soon.You can check the building regs online. If you feel ok about it, then do it yourself and save some money . Do builder and surveyor come as a duo? That would bother me a bit.

ps I put my name down as developer so that I get the correspondence, not some smartie dude. I have come across too many cowboys in my time,so have become a bit of a control freak in my old age

Seems he is over egging the pudding , by then if he is charging you £1800 for something I don't think you need then honestly go somewhere else. This will be stressful the last thing you want is to get on the wrong foot before you have started. You all need to be on the same page.
Get another architect to draw some construction drawing use this to price from and for BC.

Ooh envious of your detached property CrustyCob and no party wall issues. Though next door re-built their extension with no issues, so am not expecting any surprises here. Oh and well done for submitting application yourself

I kind of got the impression they did come as a duo, which initially I thought was great -less hassle for us. However, turns out they've never met. Seems builder just likes his plans.

So we can get in anyone now right? Someone who knows about joists & RSJ's!!!

You can start work off a building notice OP you do realise? Speak to neighbours directly and if they are ok about the extension then definitely do this yourself. DH just choked on his tea over £1800.

Crusty are you me?! Have also met many cowboys and way prefer to organise it myself and get it done. That's brilliant you're up to first fix. I would be digging the footings myself too, if I wasn't registered disabled!

We’ve recently had a rear extension. Builder said that it falls under the rules of permitted development but just to be doubly sure and have proof of this we had to apply for a certificate from the council. The application cost about £80 and took about a month to go through. It wasn’t as detailed as planning permission so neighbours weren’t notified.
We paid about £400 to have plans drawn up by an architectural technician, these were to the standards required by building control (I think planning would have accepted a less detailed drawing but we used the same one for both). I filled in the applications for planning and building control myself. Unless you are doing something very complicated (like conservation area as previously mentioned) I don’t see why a qualified surveyor would need to be involved.

Interesting Crusty ....sounds rude without the Cob bit

Good you put your own names under the developer bit. Was going to do that and leave agent bit blank.

We did the same as Mama ^^

We did have to pay a Structural engineer £400 for the steel calcs and footings etc

Crusty both neighbours were notified and are fine. Have seen on Planning Portal where other 'locals' have applied for PD retrospectively and it seemed to involve a lot more form filling, so thought I'd safely go for the easiest option. Don't think DH would sleep if we didn't get any 'permissions' for it first. Cautious is an understatement.

To be fair to him, I do have a kamikaze approach to life & DIY and if I wasn't sick, I'd be out there pulling the current extension down before the PD approval came through

We got a detached that was falling to bits, last owner was here for fifty years. Not quite so posh!

Yes you can get anyone in whom you think is able.
Worst bit is digging out. Do lots of research, we hired a mini digger for the footings. We bought the materials too so paid labour only.

RSJs and stuff you can get a structural engineer to do the written equation for Building Control IF they ask for calcs down the line.. A lot cheaper too!
A decent builder will know what they are doing and will work with BC.
We got different trades in for different jobs.
Will be back later, have to go and cook at the moment.

Oh and don't pay loads up front!

Argh Mama & 4years , why is there all this discrepancy and lack of information around this process? Builder did not mention a certificate. Though I did read something about that in my research.

Builder thought employing the Surveyor would be good - deals with Building Control etc Surely, it would be quite straightforward anyway?

Ok, so the person we get to draw up the building specs is the one that employs the structural engineer and liaises with Building Control? Or not?

Sorry, good to see others joining in. Yes, we may be the same person, I'm disabled too [grin} Back later...

Pm me later on and will chat x

No edit button here darn nuisance.
Grave...you have got the process right. Look up your local authority building control website and have a read re PD, and see what they say.
It's straightforward. Bullshit baffles brains as my Dad said.
Right... really need to go now...

Thanks Mamaohana. Good to know it was £400 for the detailed spec. That's about what the other quote was for. If he wasn't trying to persuade us how amazing a flat roof now is, we might have used him. A flat roof was in our NO list

Gah, I can't keep up with my own thread . As usual.

That's interesting Crusty, sorry to hear about your challenges too . Since I became unexpectedly disabled, I seem to have been fighting my corner everywhere. I just wondered if it was making me feistier and I should bow down to surveyor man and just let him get on with it.

Thank goodness for MN!!!!! to you all, for your words of advice. You've given me hope!

My brain is so slow now -overloaded- so going to take a little break to read through this all again and the PD stuff.

I like your Dad Crusty! I also really don't think this has to be so complicated!!

When I tried to push the Surveyor about a quicker way, he said no, which means he's lying and I knew that! Secondly, he said 'well, what if the neighbours object? That will slow the whole process down anyway'. Why should they? grrrrr

Sorry, back again. Has anyone else bought an expensive Portal Planning aerial block map to accompany their application?

Actually, I don't think it's that expensive, but others have submitted hand drawn plans and I've got our aerial map copied from our Estate Agent details. Is that wrong? I don't want to get into trouble, but I couldn't see any copyright on it?

Get your Party Agreements going asap, you need neighbours written agreement. As soon as you have it, you are under starters orders! There are template letters if you look at the explanatory booklet in the link.
Have a look at this link
www.gov.uk/party-walls-building-works/when-how-tell-them

The aerial map should be ok if no copyright stamped on. Otherwise, your LA Planning Dept sometimes provide them a bit cheaper than the Planning Portal bods.

Written Party Wall Agreements???!!

I can see why people pay out to get it done 'properly'. I didn't know we would need a party wall agreement.

Does it vary between local councils? Ours just says that as long as there's no objections from adjoining neighbours (within 21 days) when we have given our PD notification, then we go ahead. After 42 days in total.

Ring up the Planning Department and clarify.
If you are not building onto anything of neighbours eg their extension wall, then ignore me . Sorry to confuse.

In fairly sure that the legal cert for permitted development is fairly standard across councils. Needing a surveyor is something that has never come up; we have all the building specs, I've been through everything with the builder and he's happy that we don't need anything more. It's a fairly bog standard extension, just needs a huge bit of steel!