Buy in London or outside?

[schalltrichter]

Hi everyone! I'm not a parent but Mumsnet seems to come up every time I search on Google for property advice and the threads here are very helpful, so I hope you'll not mind the intrusion

I'm having a huge dilemma and need thoughts from people who've been there, done that... In brief, I'm a (30-something) first-time buyer planning to buy my first home in the near future. My job is in central London & I have no plans to change that.

I'm in a fortunate position where I should be able to afford a 2-bedroom flat in London within a 45 - 60 minute commute of work. Nowhere fancy, but nice enough. So far so good. BUT on the other hand if I did buy a flat tbh I don't think I could see myself living there forever - after years of living in flats and feeling cramped, surrounded by neighbours upstairs and downstairs, etc. I think I'd eventually want a house of my own. The way London prices are, I doubt I'd ever be able to upgrade so I'd probably eventually be looking at moving out of London and commuting - probably in 5 years or so.

Meanwhile, some of my (older) friends who live outside of London and do the daily commute argue that buying in London is overrated and I should join them in the outside world straight away. (But, of course, they benefited from the astronomical price inflation of their tiny London flats over the last 10 years or so, which doubtless helped them buy their v nice commuter town properties!).

After doing the sums I've figured that I could either buy a 2-bed flat in London now within 45-60 mins of work, OR buy a house out in a nice commuter town within a 70 min commute overall, with the property costing less but the season ticket costs then pretty much directly offsetting that. So cost-wise there is little difference overall.

What would you do in my situation? Obviously I've considered the pros and cons of both options (e.g. convenience of being in London and being able to get to/from work with flexible timings etc vs being tied to the railway timetables without a backup option; leasehold vs freehold (freehold properties in London in my budget range are basically unheard of); amount of space vs the insanity of giving railway companies £000's ever year; etc etc). And of course there's the unpredictable nature of the market (will the London bubble deflate making a London purchase now too risky while the regions continue to grow? or if I skip London and buy outside, would I be throwing away potential house price gains making it harder & more expensive to upsize in the future?)?

In summary - aaaaaaaaargh! Lots of factors to think about and I'm genuinely having a hard time deciding - it'll be the biggest financial decision I've ever made so I want to make sure I get it right...

If I didn’t have to think about number of bedrooms, school catchment, etc I’d just live close to work. Being within walking or cycling distance to work for me would be incredible!

So I guess in your situation I’d sacrifice a bedroom and live as close as possible to work. Where ever you live now you will very likely move again so I wouldn’t factor that in tbh

I'm not in London, but just had a similar problem in another capital city.

We moved further out to have more space, but the trade off is that my social life is almost non existent (partly down to young child) because it takes so long to get into town and I don't know anyone locally. I don't work, but my husband spends nearly 3 hours a day commuting so has no energy for socialising in the week.

If you are moving to a place where you already have a social circle, then it can work. If you are happy spending 2 hours getting to and from work and having quiet evenings in the week, and potentially another ride into town at the weekend, then why not.

Personally, when I was single and going out a lot, I would have hated living further out.

Also, I don't know how much conveyancing fees are in the UK these days, but I wasn't prepared to shell out 20 grand if we're going to be moving again in the next 5 years.

Definitely stay in London! You have absolutely loads of time to move out later on if you want to. Commuting is so miserable. You can always buy near a park if you're worried about access to green space. If you're buying a 2 bed definitely consider renting the second room out and saving the proceeds.

Market-wise predictions are flat but there is always Brexit uncertainty. Steer clear of areas like mine where house prices have doubled in the last 8 or so years. There's always repossessions, auctions etc. that might offer good value for money.

What's your actual budget? I think that if you can afford a little house in a commuter town + the commute, then you probably can afford a little house in London too.

When DH and I got together, we decided that a zone 2 lifestyle didn't suit us any more so we started looking at where to move out to. DH is very outdoorsy but I wanted to be able to get around London, see friends or change jobs easily + didn't like the thought of 7k season tickets. We didn't want to live in an armpit so would only consider somewhere safe, clean and pleasant.

In the end, we decided on Sutton, which is zone 5 in south London. It's got trains into Victoria, London Bridge, the city, Kings Cross so a lot of commuting options - you don't get stuck if sth isn't running. There's even a night bus from Trafalgar Sq and it's a short bus/car ride from the end of the Northern line. So getting to different bits of London is easy. Equally, we're within walking distance of actual countryside and have tons of greenery and space around us and friendly neighbours.
Property prices and crime rates are amongst the lowest in London too.
So for us it felt like the best overall option.

I always thought Sutton was Surrey!

However my DD has had to weigh this up. She is based in a fairly central office but has to travel a lot so access to stations is very important. Where we live, a 35 minute commute plus a 10 min car journey, she could get a very nice 3 bed house. In London it’s a 2 bed flat but it’s hugely convenient and all her friends, every single one, is in London. A future life might dictate a commuter town but not yet!

Bubbles, the postal address is Surrey but it's been a London borough since the 60's. The current 'Welcome to Surrey' sign is a 10 min walk from my house, though :)

I’m in exactly the same situation so watching with interest. I think I’ve decided that I’d like to live in London, even if that means compromising on space. There’s such a wealth of things to do in London and there are some lovely areas around I think on balance it’s worth it particularly if you’re cost neutral. The benefit of a London move would be sharp appreciation (if BREXIT doesn’t do too much damage to housing prices).

I am so old!!! I just always think of it as Surrey. It’s the extremity of London then, literally!

Lots of London property is being reduced at the moment and there does appear to be a correct room going on. DDs flat was reduced by 7%. It should be ok though due to being in a sought after residential conservation area and very close to an underground station. I think the previous price 6 months ago was kite flying. The location future proofs it to some extent. Hopefully!

correction - not correct room!

I'd get a 2 bed flat in London, given your circumstances at the moment - you can always move out later on if your circumstances change. Even if you decide to start a family in the next few years, a 2 bed will give you enough space to do so (at least for a little while).

Being in your early thirties with no kids and working central - you could end up bored to tears in commuter-ville. Yeah, London property prices could fall with Brexit, but if that happens they will likely take commuter zone prices down with them. You can't really second guess it, so I'd think about what's suitable for you and your lifestyle.

If you're very lucky you might be able to find a 2 bed place where it is possible that could extend into a loft or garden in the future - which will give you more choice later on (if you find you want to stay in London longer term).

Might also be worth looking at somewhere that will benefit from the opening of Crossrail too.

@hispterwannabe I'm the same - I would ideally like to stay in London when my DP and I have kids. We would like a small family (1 or 2 children). We currently own a two-bed maisonette flat. It looks like we'll be able to convert the loft, too. Not massive by any stretch but many larger families have lived in smaller spaces! I think it would be fine. We don't need to drive, we have manageable bills, and we are near good schools, shops, parks, restaurants/cafes, and transport links.

I think I'd actually prefer a smaller family home anyway, providing we have enough storage space, as I like the thought of less upkeep, cleaning etc. I even love researching small space ideas and storage solutions!

The other options would be to mortgage ourselves out of existence for a 3 or 4 bed house in London, or move out to a commuter town, which would change our way of life dramatically and add on a long commute.

Of course, I might change my mind when I actually have a family... Who knows?!

I would definitely buy in one of the places your friends are speaking of, especially if it’s only 10 minutes further out.

My DH and I have a mortgage on a large (by London standards) flat in zone 3, but it’s quickly becoming impractical for our needs with 1 DD here, and another on the way.

Most flats in zones 1-3 are leasehold or share in freehold, meaning that you will still have some arsehole landlord or property management company telling you that you can’t own a dog or a cat, or leave your pram in a hallway etc. These may not apply to you now, but if your circumstances change, you may be stuck there. This is what happened to us despite trying our best to factor in at least the next 10 years. There’s only so much of this you can do as first time buyers, especially in London. We resent having to pay service charges and be dictated to about plans and pets when we are paying mortgage - it just doesn’t feel like our own place, just like we still rent.

We have a communal garden which we were pleased with, until our DD came along and we realise how impractical it is. It isn’t fenced off at the back, and there is also an alleyway and an access road there. We are also two floors up, so trying to take a toddler outside on a metal spiral staircase juggling a bike and some drinks is a fucking nightmare. Just telling you all this so that you can consider these things if you start looking at flats, and if you may have children in the future.

Despite our flat increasing by around £150,000 in value since we’ve lived in it, we are completely stuck here as for our needs, we really need a house, but we just still can’t afford one unless we go to some areas in zone 4 or further out. I would do this in a heartbeat, but DH refuses to go any further than zone 3, and nowhere that isn’t gentrified.

You 're in a good position to try renting for six months in commuter town and see if it works for you or nor.
Renting will be cheaper too so you coukd leave stuff in storage if you want.
Try it and if it suits your lifestyle now go for the house
Five years is a long time and if you got a good lifestyle in lo ndon with late nights out you want night tube
not running to catch the last train home

But..i suspect you will end up choosing at nice flats with garden and own entrance in tube zone

@Argeles what a stubborn husband!

@JoJoSM2

I’m working on him!

I have caught him perusing zone 4 properties a few times on RightMove in the last few months, so fingers crossed!!!

Angeles, it’ll only be another 5 mins on the train/tube so I hope he’ll see some sense ;)

As you don't have children yet and like London life I would go for London. What would you do with an extra bedroom or more square feet in the living areas? Not enough to make it worth sacrificing being able to quickly and easily get to work and anywhere else you want to go.

I have endured a lengthy commute. It is stressful. Delays, cancellations, strikes, train so packed they don't even open the doors at your station and oh look the next one is too packed as well. Season tickets cost a fortune.

I need space for a quite large family now so would make a different choice but you won't need more space for years. Even if you get pregnant tonight, babies and toddlers can share a room. If you move to a commuter town on your own you may end up having to leave your friends before you want to in order to get the last train or not even bothering meeting them at all because it's too much hassle after a week of commuting. You will be buying a lifestyle so think carefully about what sort of life you want.

In your circumstances of say London. I grew up in London suburbs but have lived in zone 2 since returning following uni 16yes ago.

We are constantly umming and arhing about what to do next. Currently we own a 2 bed ground & basement flat with a small garden. We've got planning permission to convert a basement space into a 3rd bedroom. DS2 turned up and scuppered our plans but we're back to it now. Cash in and move to the burbs or declutter, renovate and enjoy the city.

Enjoy the excitment of house hunting

Hello everyone,

New to the site, but like the OP, whenever I do certain property searches online, MumsNet always pops up and the comments are extremely informative and helpful.

Anyway, I am in a similar situation. Recently my father said he will provide the deposit for me on a flat. Been looking at shared ownership options and currently my options are a 2-bed new build flat in Barking or a 2-bed flat in Turnford. I am very tempted by the one in Turnford as I can do the commute on my motorbike (which means I'm less likely to be affected by traffic jams). Plus the one in Turnford needs a little modernising, which I like as my dad was a builder before he retired, so I learned a lot of skills from him meaning I can do a lot of the work myself, keeping costs down.

Whichever one I choose, I am considering getting a lodger to ease the financials.

I really like living in London, but as I get older and more of my friends have children, I find myself doing nights out less and less often.

Got a viewing booked tomorrow at the property in Turnford, so will time myself on the bike to give me some idea of what the commute will be like.

Make sure the Shared Ownership allows you to take in a lodger. Some normal flats don't allow this either in their leases so, if that is your plan look elsewhere or don't mention it to lawyer or mortgage company.

I would definitely go with a 2-bed in London personally. First, unless you’ve lived in a commuter town and know it’s right for you, you might find it very boring. It’s a lifestyle choice. Second, the long term appeal of London is likely to stay strong, whereas I don’t really know how well that will hold up for for towns outside.

Depending on what commute and lifestyle factors you’re looking to solve for, you might find some of the new smart property search tools like www.searchsmartly.co - they can help you quickly discover good areas for your needs and hopefully save you a lot of time and get inspired!

I live in a commuter town and work in central London. The commute is the same length of time as when I lived in zone 2 , but obviously more expensive (but it's a lot more boring than London!)