It's another plan my kitchen one <jazz hands>

[GrainneWail]

I really hate my kitchen but for the moment I can only do a fairly cosmetic job on it. My main problems are 1) dishwasher and bins are current in the utility room, I need them in the kitchen; 2) storage is terrible, very inefficient and I can never find anything; 3) lack of counter space; 4) I want a bigger working hob; 5) three doors and a void that can't be moved.

Kitchen is 3m wide and 6m long which is a good space, but I'm finding it hard to do anything "great" with it. Even though we technically have a dining room, I want to keep the kitchen table in there, even just for homework, etc.

Attached are my current kitchen and my most recent plan. I would put the dishwasher between the fridge freezer and sink and bins under the sink. I think I have the triangle well spaced. I would keep the wall cabinets to the right corner area to keep the left wall open. I'm still struggling with the lack of counter space though. I cook and bake a lot and need this to work!

Can anyone suggest how I can make more counter space?

Is there just the window where the sink is currently? Could the doors which currently open into the room be changed to open outwards.

With the voids and doors at one end, you've really only got 3m x 5m and currently there are a couple of m of wall space unused at the doors end of the room.

Have you thought about an island or peninsula instead of the table? You can then have cupboards underneath for storage space.

What about your utility room - what storage space is there in there or would there be with the dishwasher and bins in the kitchen? I take it the washing machine is in the utility?

And if you are struggling for storage space, I would keep a large area of wall unused. It's fine only having base units in a big kitchen if you don't have loads of stuff you need to store in there.

Utility room will be more usable when the dishwasher and bins have been moved into the kitchen. I should have a large corner cupboard and probably 2x600 units, one tall and one under counter. I'd plan to use these for extra larder storage (low 600), proper storage for vacuum and cleaning stuff (tall 600) and probably less used large pots and baking tins in the corner.

Ideally we would have breakfast and dinner in the kitchen, so I'm attached to having the table it's also a bit family heirloomey and I'm sentimental. I know someone who could build in the benches for me, so these would be useful space, but not for day to day.

Currently the wall with the window has a comicly large double sink and drainer with negligibly useful counter tops and minimal cupboards to either side (400 unit to right and 600 corner unit to left of pointless under sink cupboard).

I would be worried that a peninsula where I've put the table would leave us with a slalom run at that end.

Main door to utility room (the one on the long wall towards the window) has to open in or the utility room becomes unusable. And possibly buildings regs? The door opening onto the void is from the hall and would cross the stairs if it opened out. The third door does open out. Can't be closed up.

Okay. There's a typo is one of my posts - I wouldn't keep a large area of wall unused. That's what you currently have. Understood re: the doors and not being able to reorientate them, that's why I asked.

I wasn't suggesting a peninsula where you have the table on your plans - I'm suggesting thinking about where else you might have one. Can the table go in the dining room instead if it would free up space in the kitchen and give you a better overall layout and use of space?

Can you move the door to the utility?? I've moved it along to give you a u shape kitchen. I would replace the table with a peninsular in the same position. I'd also prefer patio doors rather than a single door if this leads to the garden??

If you want to have a large kitchen diner though, I'd consider knocking through into another room personally

Is there a way to replace the utility door with a sliding or pocket door? That gives you slightly more room in front of the doorway so that you could rotate the table 90 degrees.

Unfortunately doors can't be moved/changed and while the dream is to knock into the room next door (where the out swinging door leads, which is technically the dining room) there are some major structural challenges with that and they just cost way too much for now. I might have to consider losing the kitchen table, but as the DC are 6&8 it's good to have them doing homework/activities at the table while I'm cooking after work - 2 birds with one stone.

wowfudge your comment about it really only being a 5mx3m room makes complete sense. I need to change my thinking about what it could be with that extra meter.

How often do you close the doors?

Could you just have them taken off?

Or at least the ones that get in the way? (The one at the top especially cos it looks very awkward in picture)

You could just take them off hinges and see if you miss them and if you do put them back again?

Or put sliding door that goes along the wall iyswim

Is the fridge freezer going to go next to the window?

I would put the fridge on the other side of the room, near where you currently have the hob. I’d want it near a work surface so that I could put things down easily without cluttering up the table. Then I would rotate the table by 90 degrees so that you could sit at it and look out the window. And I’d put open shelving either side of the window for things like cookery books, which you might browse at the table. I’d probably put a notice board there too.

Oh sorry! I got the two pictures mixed up! I prefer the current arrangement apart from those two small details

Doors are needed! The one that's the biggest problem, the one down by the window is the original back door to the house. The utility room is an add on to the garage, all of which is unheated so we would perish in the summer winter without the door and sliding would be too insecure without doing a major job on the utility/garage which again is massively outside the scope and budget of what we can do right now.

Sorry, I know I seem to be shooting down all your suggestions. I'm not, just unfortunately there are loads of limitations on what we can do for the next approx 5 years, but I've reached the end of my tether after 9 years of a kitchen I hate and have made do with.

Ah OK. Well in that case can you move the utility door all the way to the left?! Replace the window with french doors then have a galley kitchen and your table? What exactly is the void? Could the bin go in there for example?

Your first pic (the new plan?) is similar to mine and I struggle with it, but I do think it's pretty efficient. Tbh it looks like a reasonable amount of work surface to me and you have more scope for wall cupboards .

Your wishlist is v long. Pick your compromises and priorities. For example:

• yy to bins under sink. I'm not sure why you can't currently have a nice shiny one in the bottom right hand corner of the second pic though.
• a genius idea from the extensions thread - ikea (I think) sell a single burner hob that can just be plugged in. Stick with a 60cm hob day to day, stash one of these extra ones in the utility and bring it out on high days and holidays. Enjoy the extra worktop you've gained by not having a big hob the rest of the year. It's a mindset thing - tell youself a bigger hob will not actually make you as happy as the glossy brochures would have you believe.
• I use our kitchen table as extra worktop all the time. Mine is oriented the other way to yours so it functions more as a peninsula to the main worktop
• alternatively if you lose the bench seat alone the left hand wall, can you extend the worktop enough to get an extra cupboard in, therefore gaining enough to sacrifice a cupboard by the sink for a dishwasher?
• what can you relegate from current kitchen to utility? Microwave? Food cupboard? Casserole dishes? Cat food? Drinks? Teatowels? Christmas crockery?
• You need ultra efficient storage of what you do have. I only have one base cabinet that isn't a rubbishy corner one and it is packed to the rafters! My saucepans live in 2 piles. Anything that doesn't nest nicely in a pile gets chucked - tupperware, measuring jugs, bowls, crockery - it nests or it goes. Mugs we limit to about 10 and stack them. Vertical storage in tall drawers a la Kondo.

The built in benches are a good idea and by putting them near the window you free up the other corner for wall cupboards, which is good. However long benches are awkward to get in and out of, especially if your heirloom table has legs at the corners. My eldest is 11 and we are looking at ripping ours out.

Bin can't go in the corner, there's a door there! Void is completely unusable. And even if we had the budget to move the utility room door, another door in there would cause a problem. Yes, utility room also has 3 doors.

I remeasured and I think I could fit at least another 400 and probably 600 unit on the hob run of units!! I had allowed an overly generous space for the benches which I think I can comfortably reduce. That would give me a little over 1m either side of the 800mm hob, plus 1.5m on the L behind.

I'm less concerned about the storage space in the new arrangement. The utility room is pretty much useless at the moment for storage and the guy who I hope will make the benches and fit the kitchen says he can move a lot of the current kitchen units into the utility to make a much more useful space there, ie a spare larder cupboard and a casserole dishes/baking tins space. Counter space is my big worry. The extra space I've just "found" certainly helps.

no not right in the corner, next to the cupboard marked "tall". There's a massive gap between that and the door. But anyway. You do need enough extra bench for getting into and out of it, especially if the legs are in the corners of the table. But if you can claw back another metre of units that's loads of worktop - problem solved!

Sorry, gap is radiator I forgot to mark in. Bin + temperature = not envy