Architect Quote

[KittyKK]

Any thoughts please on following architect quote?

£1.5k for detailed digital survey of existing house plans and elevations;
3.5% of budget estimate for sketch proposals, final drawing and submission of planning application;
3.5% of construction costs for construction drawing, seeking/obtaining fixed price tenders from contractors and submitting building regs application;
£2k for structural engineer at construction drawing stage;
Hourly rates (total estimated approx 3-4% of contract figure) for project management, including finalising contracts, site inspections, certification of payments (through to snagging/completion/6-month defects inspection).

Plus VAT, plus usual disbursements (planning application fees etc).

It is a big renovation and I need the project management element. Interested to know thoughts on the proposed percentage charges. Thanks!

Domestic renovation project? Architect's fees should come to about 12% of the construction costs.

Check you've got a real architect - There is a massive problem of bogus architects, with up to a third in some areas being fakes. The government has a register - architects-register.org.uk/ where you can look them up. Not on the register = not an architect.

Thanks @winefred. That’s helpful. Yes, looks like it would be around the 12% mark. The firm is registered on the website you recommended. The guy I met is a partner and the “lead designer”, as it was a site visit to discuss floor plan changes. The two other partners (and other staff) show up as Chartered Architects. Thanks!

@Winefred: "There is a massive problem of bogus architects, with up to a third in some areas being fakes."

Source?

Or is it, like 99% of all statistics, simply made up?

I can't remember the last time I saw a prosecution for impersonating an Architect, which suggests the latter...

As @KittyKK has just discovered, the status of the practice is no assurance of the qualifications of the person doing the work - and for this type of work it probably doesn't matter; the training an Architectural Technologist goes through is actually more relevant and specific. If the guy she met carries the title of 'Lead Designer', then he may not even be a qualified or chartered Architectural Technologist (otherwise he would identify himself as one). If he's a partner in a successful practice, you can probably be reasonably confident that he is competent and knows his stuff, none the less.

I can't remember the last time I saw a prosecution for impersonating an Architect

Jan 23rd - www.lutontoday.co.uk/news/crime/record-fine-for-luton-man-who-posed-as-architect-1-8353630

For anyone interested in fake architect prosecutions -

www.arb.org.uk/public-information/regulate-use-title-architect/table-of-prosecutions/

The ARB announces on Twitter how many are under investigation for false advertising. Last time I saw (since Christmas) it was 32. Most quite advertising themselves as Architects after a couple of warning letters. Some end up in court. There has been a lull in prosecutions while the low level of maximum fine was addressed. That's been sorted out now and we can expect some juicy ones.

@Winefred "For anyone interested in fake architect prosecutions -
www.arb.org.uk/public-information/regulate-use-title-architect/table-of-prosecutions/"

So I make that an average of 4.4 prosecutions per year, nationwide?

I'm detecting quite a large gap between that and 'up to 1/3rd in some areas'...

Scaremongering, much?

The ARB take a soft approach to enforcement. Most offenders realise that they can't win and so remove their false advertising after a couple of letters. The process is highly effective.
Here's some more info on how it's done www.arb.org.uk/public-information/regulate-use-title-architect/policy-misuse-title/

There's a report somewhere with how many were processed in a year. I'll have a look. Meanwhile everything that can be done to raise awareness is a good thing. People put their life savings into their house projects and need protecting from people who misrepresent themselves.

276 investigations into misuse of the title 'Architect' in 2016
2016.arb.org.uk/facts-figures/professional-standards/

@Winefred: "276 investigations into misuse of the title 'Architect' in 2016"

OK, so 276 investigations nationwide, leading to 5 prosecutions?

Even neglecting the inevitability that a high percentage of those investigations were groundless, we're still a long, long way from 'up to 1/3rd' of people in some areas claiming to be Architects being bogus.

There are 38,500 registered Architects in the UK. I make 1/3rd of that about 12,800.

Please stop trying to frighten people with your own bogus statistics and misleading information.

None of the registered architects are fake. The fakes ones are those people advertising online as architects who are not registered.

No need for anyone to worry (unless they've already used a fake architect) - just check the government's register before using someone who claims to be an architect. (And do everyone else a favour and report them - here's the form title-complaints.arb.org.uk/ ).

The ARB have now moved their attention to Limited Companies with 'Architect' or 'Architects' in the name. Limited companies are artificial persons and the use of the word 'Architect' is only allowed by special permission.

@Winefred: "None of the registered architects are fake."

Yes, you're quite right. My maths is faulty. If the 38,500, and represent 2/3rds, then your 1/3rd of 'bogus' architects would be 19,250.

The ARB has a bit of catching up to do, if you're to be believed.

I think they are aware of that

@Winefred: So I ask again, since all the statistics you have provided suggest a dramatically different situation, where are you getting your figure of 1/3rd of 'Architects' being bogus?

I hoping to get advice on my actual quote, rather than elicit a side argument.

I am glad that @winefred mentioned the register...My quote is from a well known medium sized practice with a mix of commercial and residential work. I’d assumed the guy I met was an actual architect (now I know he’s “lead deisgner”, so I can make sure I’m also liaising with one of the other Chartered Architect partners too).

Will try to post a new thread, as this one got sidelined!

Make sure that they fix a figure prior to start of renovations based on the fixed price contract
I am just about to start renovating a 10,000 square foot listed project the cost of the refurb is £200 per square foot including professional fees work your costs back once you have square footage area
As project manager my fee will be 4 % and is based on the original project cost not on an open ended final costing
Be useful to ask if this includes a face to face progress meeting once a week which is very useful

@KittyKK: "I’d assumed the guy I met was an actual architect (now I know he’s “lead deisgner”, so I can make sure I’m also liaising with one of the other Chartered Architect partners too)".

It really makes absolutely no difference, despite Whinefred's bizarre axe-grinding, and they'll probably be irritated if you insist upon such an arrangement.

My practice employs Chartered Architects, Architectural Technologists and, for what it's worth, Chartered Planners too... the former two are equally competent on any design or technical issues.

If anything, an Architectural Technologist is more appropriate for your sort of work, as their training is specifically on building technology and construction detailing, and is also specific to UK Building and Planning regulations.

An Architect's training, by contrast, is biased toward the creative process and overarching management of the project: they traditionally rely on their Technicans/Technical Assistants to handle the actual construction detailing and statutory approvals. They are also trained with a view to working globally, so when they leave University, they don't have the first clue about UK Building Regs and Planning, or, indeed typical traditional constriction details. Hell, we've taken on postgrad Architectural students who didn't know what a hipped roof or trussed rafter was until we taught them!

The truth is that by the time they reach any level of seniority - as this chap clearly has if he's been made a Partner - their knowledge and skillset (and salary) will have merged completely, in most instances, however.